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Matt_22
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 193
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 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: MA in Ed. TESOL - What kind of job market? |
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I am thinking of getting an MA of Ed. in English as a Second Langauge, which includes US state certification as an ESL instructor. If I go through with this, what kind of job market am I looking at overseas - in terms of contracts and salaries?
Also, if I wanted to focus on teaching at the tertiary level, what would be the best way to get my feet wet? China? The Middle East? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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The degree alone is not enough for uni work in Japan. Perhaps the same is true elsewhere.
A teaching license is also insufficient in many places (for international schools), because you would also need 2 years of experience. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:12 am Post subject: Re: MA in Ed. TESOL - What kind of job market? |
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| Matt_22 wrote: |
I am thinking of getting an MA of Ed. in English as a Second Langauge, which includes US state certification as an ESL instructor. If I go through with this, what kind of job market am I looking at overseas - in terms of contracts and salaries?
Also, if I wanted to focus on teaching at the tertiary level, what would be the best way to get my feet wet? China? The Middle East? |
With the degree and no experience you are only about 1 step above entry level. Get a year or two of actual classroom experience under your belt after that and you open up all the doors with the exception of western Europe (the EU).
Depending on the country of choice your starting salary will range from $500-2500/mo and after you get some experience you can drop the class load from 25 to 12 and bump the salary range up to about $40k+ benefits per year.
You also have to keep in mind that the salaries go a long way in the "local" economies as compared to a similar salary in the states.
. |
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Matt_22
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:57 am Post subject: Re: MA in Ed. TESOL - What kind of job market? |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| Matt_22 wrote: |
I am thinking of getting an MA of Ed. in English as a Second Langauge, which includes US state certification as an ESL instructor. If I go through with this, what kind of job market am I looking at overseas - in terms of contracts and salaries?
Also, if I wanted to focus on teaching at the tertiary level, what would be the best way to get my feet wet? China? The Middle East? |
With the degree and no experience you are only about 1 step above entry level. Get a year or two of actual classroom experience under your belt after that and you open up all the doors with the exception of western Europe (the EU).
Depending on the country of choice your starting salary will range from $500-2500/mo and after you get some experience you can drop the class load from 25 to 12 and bump the salary range up to about $40k+ benefits per year.
You also have to keep in mind that the salaries go a long way in the "local" economies as compared to a similar salary in the states.
. |
I will already have 5 years of teaching experience, 3 of those f/t at esl jobs in Korea, Australia and Indonesia by the time I start the program. I very well may be able to find work at a local International School while earning the degree - which would give me two years of experience upon graduation. Would that change the equation much? |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Understand that "experience" garnered at hogwans and eikaiwas are not considered "experience" to the ones who:
pay a good salary
offer round-trip airfares for employee and family
put you into a furnished flat or villa w/CCTV and placed on a compound with recreation facilities
pay for your children's schooling either in whole or a large chunk
give you free medical
pay for your utilities
give you a shipping allowance and pay for the storage facility so you can store what you couldn't bring along
give you a company car and puts the petrol in it as well
Also, the definition of "international" is subject to change from place to place...
NCTBA
Last edited by Never Ceased To Be Amazed on Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:39 am Post subject: Re: MA in Ed. TESOL - What kind of job market? |
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| Matt_22 wrote: |
I will already have 5 years of teaching experience, 3 of those f/t at esl jobs in Korea, Australia and Indonesia by the time I start the program. I very well may be able to find work at a local International School while earning the degree - which would give me two years of experience upon graduation. Would that change the equation much? |
For the best IS schools/situations, it does seem like the emphasis is on post-credential experience for that two years. Will your program be one structured in such a way that you will earn your credential in the first year? If you do that, then have a solid year of work afterwards while you are still finishing your MA, you'll be half way there, and your prior experience might be easier to leverage.
I'm planning a similar path, while keeping a watchful and wary eye on the state of the global economy. I will have 5 years experience as an ALT in Japan, but I am not counting on that counting towards "experience" in any way other than being a plus in the very broadest sense. It will look very good as long as I am also appropriately qualified. I am simply accepting the fact that there may be a couple years of dues paying, probably in some place in the states I don't particularly want to live or work in, before I will be able to move out into the world if ISs.
Good luck, report back as you proceed!
Last edited by natsume on Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:45 am Post subject: Re: MA in Ed. TESOL - What kind of job market? |
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| Matt_22 wrote: |
| tttompatz wrote: |
| Matt_22 wrote: |
I am thinking of getting an MA of Ed. in English as a Second Langauge, which includes US state certification as an ESL instructor. If I go through with this, what kind of job market am I looking at overseas - in terms of contracts and salaries?
Also, if I wanted to focus on teaching at the tertiary level, what would be the best way to get my feet wet? China? The Middle East? |
With the degree and no experience you are only about 1 step above entry level. Get a year or two of actual classroom experience under your belt after that and you open up all the doors with the exception of western Europe (the EU).
Depending on the country of choice your starting salary will range from $500-2500/mo and after you get some experience you can drop the class load from 25 to 12 and bump the salary range up to about $40k+ benefits per year.
You also have to keep in mind that the salaries go a long way in the "local" economies as compared to a similar salary in the states.
. |
I will already have 5 years of teaching experience, 3 of those f/t at esl jobs in Korea, Australia and Indonesia by the time I start the program. I very well may be able to find work at a local International School while earning the degree - which would give me two years of experience upon graduation. Would that change the equation much? |
Yes, puts you in a whole new ballpark.
5 years experience prior to the MA, + 2 years during the MA + the MA means pick your country.
You would be classed as experienced and preferred at the secondary school level but you are still only entry level at the university lecturer stage.
. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Usually, with a teaching license, you can teach in K to 12, MAs are useful, but no necessary
For teritary, MAs are the norm, as are publications and presentations. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
Understand that "experience" garnered at hogwans and eikaiwas are not considered "experience" to the ones who:
pay a good salary
offer round-trip airfares for employee and family
put you into a furnished flat or villa w/CCTV and placed on a compound with recreation facilities
pay for your children's schooling either in whole or a large chunk
give you free medical
pay for your utilities
give you a shipping allowance and pay for the storage facility so you can store what you couldn't bring along
give you a company car and puts the petrol in it as well
Also, the definition of "international" is subject to change from place to place...
NCTBA |
Darn, I thought I had a good job, but the only thing I have is a good salary and my airfare. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:53 am Post subject: Re: MA in Ed. TESOL - What kind of job market? |
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| Matt_22 wrote: |
| I will already have 5 years of teaching experience, 3 of those f/t at esl jobs in Korea, Australia and Indonesia by the time I start the program. I very well may be able to find work at a local International School while earning the degree - which would give me two years of experience upon graduation. Would that change the equation much? |
I still think that most international schools want their teachers to have experience back in their home countries in public schools, not overseas somewhere (unless, of course, that also happens to be in an international school).
What sort of places did you work at in Korea, Aus and Indonesia? Conversation schools? If so, I don't think that changes the equation very much in some countries (certainly not in Japan).
| ttompatz wrote: |
| 5 years experience prior to the MA, + 2 years during the MA + the MA means pick your country. |
Not Japan, if university teaching is what you're after. |
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Matt_22
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: Re: MA in Ed. TESOL - What kind of job market? |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Matt_22 wrote: |
| I will already have 5 years of teaching experience, 3 of those f/t at esl jobs in Korea, Australia and Indonesia by the time I start the program. I very well may be able to find work at a local International School while earning the degree - which would give me two years of experience upon graduation. Would that change the equation much? |
I still think that most international schools want their teachers to have experience back in their home countries in public schools, not overseas somewhere (unless, of course, that also happens to be in an international school).
What sort of places did you work at in Korea, Aus and Indonesia? Conversation schools? If so, I don't think that changes the equation very much in some countries (certainly not in Japan).
| ttompatz wrote: |
| 5 years experience prior to the MA, + 2 years during the MA + the MA means pick your country. |
Not Japan, if university teaching is what you're after. |
I worked in private language schools in all three countries, as well as one year of part-time work in public schools in the USA prior to that.
I'm not sure how interested I am in university gigs overseas - just trying to guage what's out there. From what I can gather, Japan seems like the best place for uni work, but it appears that you have to be a "lifer" who at least speaks decent Japanese - not a good fit for me.
However, I would still like the opportunity to return to the states in 15-20 years and have that option of teaching at junior or community colleges - many of which pay quite well. I'm just wondering if the pursuit of a teaching career at international schools will lock me out of a chance to teach at the tertiary level back home. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Matt_22,
Unless it's exceptional where you live, working (at least at the present time) at a community (or junior) college teaching ESL is strictly a part-time deal.
I worked overseas for about 22 years (Iran, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia) and now I'm teaching ESL at the local community college.
Maybe it'll change in another 15 or 20 years, but to the best of my knowledge, part-time work in community college ESL teaching is the norm at present.
Regards,
John |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:25 am Post subject: Re: MA in Ed. TESOL - What kind of job market? |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Matt_22 wrote: |
| I will already have 5 years of teaching experience, 3 of those f/t at esl jobs in Korea, Australia and Indonesia by the time I start the program. I very well may be able to find work at a local International School while earning the degree - which would give me two years of experience upon graduation. Would that change the equation much? |
I still think that most international schools want their teachers to have experience back in their home countries in public schools, not overseas somewhere (unless, of course, that also happens to be in an international school).
What sort of places did you work at in Korea, Aus and Indonesia? Conversation schools? If so, I don't think that changes the equation very much in some countries (certainly not in Japan).
| ttompatz wrote: |
| 5 years experience prior to the MA, + 2 years during the MA + the MA means pick your country. |
Not Japan, if university teaching is what you're after. |
And you should quit quoting out of context.
READ THE LINE THAT FOLLOWED THE LINE YOU QUOTED...
"You would be classed as experienced and prefered at the secondary school level BUT you are still only entry level at the university lecturer stage"
. |
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Matt_22
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Matt_22,
Unless it's exceptional where you live, working (at least at the present time) at a community (or junior) college teaching ESL is strictly a part-time deal.
I worked overseas for about 22 years (Iran, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia) and now I'm teaching ESL at the local community college.
Maybe it'll change in another 15 or 20 years, but to the best of my knowledge, part-time work in community college ESL teaching is the norm at present.
Regards,
John |
Thanks for letting me know.
I suppose teaching at the tertiary level might be a bit of a pipe dream, but I'm still not really seeing the drawback of getting a MA in Ed. (ESL). Worst case scenario - if I'm stuck with the degree and can't find a good international gig - is I'm back in the US getting close to 50k/year at a secondary public school and likely getting more vacation time than I would be abroad, along with a pension and IRA/401k opportunities.
That doesn't sound like a bad worse case scenario. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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likely getting more vacation time than I would be abroad,
Depends where abroad. We get tonnes here in Europe (I'm currently enjoying 11 weeks paid holiday). |
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