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sidjameson
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 629
Location: osaka
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 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| But if you pay no NI contributions you will still get 550 GBP a month as long as you stay in the Uk. |
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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 792
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| sidjameson wrote: |
| But if you pay no NI contributions you will still get 550 GBP a month as long as you stay in the Uk. |
Of course - because even if you are/were unemployed all your life the social services pay your NI contributions on your behalf. Almost makes you wonder what the point of working is, unless you can get well beyond the lower income jobs. Amazing really.
As Hod suggests, I can imagine them becoming increasingly stingy if the economy continues to stumble, though I can't see how they could possibly justify not paying the pension to those of us who have made "voluntary" contributions from abroad.
Having said that, I know people from other western countries who, even though they paid into the state pension for a number of years, won't get their pension unless they return home. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Perilla wrote: |
| Hi Sid. I'm very surprised they have reduced the quota of years required for full pension, especially given the ageing UK population. Do you know how they explain the change? I'm not complaining though as it means I'll be in line for the full pension. |
The previous 39-year requirement was deemed unfair to women who had taken time off to have children.
Perilla, can I give you another of my scenarios.
You go to a bar once a week with 12 friends. To save hassle, you all put three euros into a pot and use the 39 Euro total amount to pay for your booze. Then a few of your mates say that three Euros is two much. You all agree to reduce the amount by 23%, and your pot is now 30 Euros. You�re happy to pay less, but you get less booze and go home thirsty.
My scenario is crap, but is it really such good news that the government reduced the requirement from 39 to 30 years? You�ve answered your own question by expressing surprise about this in view of the ageing population. |
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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 792
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
| My scenario is crap, but is it really such good news that the government reduced the requirement from 39 to 30 years? You�ve answered your own question by expressing surprise about this in view of the ageing population. |
I totally agree that the reduction is surprising. At the same time, one hopes that they know what they're doing - after all, they presumably employ at least a few people who know how to do the maths. And - in a similar vein - the recent extension of the retirement age to 66 or 67 etc. will save money, covering some of the money lost by reducing the payment quota.
Still, don't get me wrong, I won't believe 100% in my UK pension until I get it. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| sidjameson wrote: |
| my mother who recently retired with no pension whatsoever has landed in a rather cozy 2 bedroom house rent free and a 550gbp a month to live on. |
Good for your mum. We want our parents to be happy, but you must see that the ratio of pensioners to working people is going up and up. We should not expect to get such benefits in twenty or thirty years time.
| Perilla wrote: |
| You mean that if your mum had some savings they would deduct their value from her benefits? |
That�s the case now for most benefits, but the State Pension (currently 97.65 Pounds a week) is not means tested.
| Perilla wrote: |
| At the same time, one hopes that they know what they're doing - after all, they presumably employ at least a few people who know how to do the maths. |
They employ a whole bank to do the maths, but they don�t always listen.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brown-ignored-warnings-over-sale-of-gold-reserves-444929.html
| Quote: |
Senior Bank of England figures are alleged to have warned that the decision to auction 400 tonnes of bullion between 1999 and 2001 risked losing money because of the low price of gold.
Since the auctions, the value of gold has trebled, leaving the Treasury with a �2bn loss on the deal, it was alleged. |
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sidjameson
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 629
Location: osaka
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Hod, I think you are under the mistaken assumption that every one pays their NI and its kept for each individual person and later paid back. I am not sure but I dont even think there is sucha thing as "the pension pot" aren't pensions paid from the treasury? I mean, NI contributions just form part of their funding and the government makes up the difference.
If you argument held true, the national health service would have collapsed years ago. The demands on it say from 1970 to 2010 grew far more than the demands on the pensions will grow in the next 40 years. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| sidjameson wrote: |
| Hod, I think you are under the mistaken assumption that every one pays their NI and its kept for each individual person and later paid back.. |
If only that were true.
I don�t think that. I do, however, like many others believe there will not be anywhere near enough money or social housing in twenty years time to support those without savings or decent private pensions.
The NHS is actually, and very sadly, the best example you could give for the future. Look at the difference in treatment, especially waiting times, between NHS and private. |
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sidjameson
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 629
Location: osaka
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Ahh, now I see the difference. You are a glass half full man.  Actually I don't mean to be snide. A big part of me has your worries and actually I am the biggest saver in % terms I know.
But I honestly would rather be sick in 2010 using the NHS than sick in 1980 using the NHS. I do believe that everything I can think of from stereos to housing, from football to flights has got better. Only the environment has gotten worse.
If I could choose what time period of the last 2000 I was to live in, then for sure it would be this one. Things have got steadily better for 2 thousand years for everybody, a few blips like WW2 aside of course. I think you are mistaken to think things will suddenly change now.
Its not an either or of course, but I would choose a life time tefling and go home penniless at 60 rather than a life time working in an office and have a modest private pension and a paid for house at the same age.
In quality of life terms there has never been a better time to be poor than now. Of course in comparative terms it's not the case. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
| sidjameson wrote: |
| my mother who recently retired with no pension whatsoever has landed in a rather cozy 2 bedroom house rent free and a 550gbp a month to live on. |
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HOw did she do that? |
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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 792
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Hod wrote: |
| sidjameson wrote: |
| my mother who recently retired with no pension whatsoever has landed in a rather cozy 2 bedroom house rent free and a 550gbp a month to live on. |
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HOw did she do that? |
She lives in the UK! Read the previous posts ... |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| sidjameson wrote: |
| Its not an either or of course, but I would choose a life time tefling and go home penniless at 60 rather than a life time working in an office and have a modest private pension and a paid for house at the same age.. |
I hope you plan your lessons better than this. 
It won�t be 60 when you get your UK State Pension. It will be 67. But going back a page, you already estimated a decent monthly amount of 800 Pounds when you are 65. Whilst you advocate teflers go home penniless, you will be quite well off. Is the morale that teflers should save a bit too? |
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