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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the primary and secondary school system in Mexico has a lot to answer for, with, as far as I can see, its method of memorization and neccessity to pass exams. |
I don't have much experience as an educator in colegios in Mexico, but as a parent I can tell you that I'm by and large disappointed with what public and private schools offer. Private offers a big step up from the 50 student size classroom, but falls far below my expectation.
In terms of root memory going on and very little critical and creative thinking skills being developed, I remember that public school back in Massachusetts did a lot of that too. It's the failure of institutionalized educations.
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The attitude that I see is indeed, as mentioned earlier, that students want to be taught, as if we had some kind of magic wand, but are not willing to put in the additional effort required to master a language. |
Because most of my experience is with adult professionals whether working for a language school or for myself, I focus on them when giving feedback in the forum. The college students I have for a few hours a week at a well-known university aren't serious students of mine. They're taking a required course. I know what to expect.
I've had and have adult students who are quiet in class. That can drive me up the wall, as no amount of grammar drills can substitute for real practice. But they're quiet sometimes because they're nervous, tired, frustrated, and with a million things on their plate. Once the relationship is really developed, they'll talk to me about almost anything. Teaching class becomes counseling sessions and commiserating.
I'm relieved to say that I have motivated (they watch videos outside of class) and committed (2 years and going with me) students. As long as class is real (I don't rely on textbooks) and natural (we watch, read, and talk about the same topics that they would in Spanish, with me serving as a coach), I've seen my students make genuine progress. That said, I've also refused students that I've foreseen as uncommitted and half-interested.
Of course, if you're teaching at a university or colegio, you're going to have unmotivated kids that you don't have the luxury of bypassing, |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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As the parent of two public school first graders I have to say I was very pleasently suprised when I took home thier new text books at the start of the year. I read every page of all the books and thought, if the teacher just does this I'll be happy. There have been a lot of changes and it's not about memorization and there is a lot of developing critical thinking skills, especially infering and interpreting and a lot of creative projects in those books. In fact, I'm tempted to take the primera de primaria Espa�ol book and use that to teach my first year university students. It's a solid language arts book, not a learn to read and memorize Spanish book--in fact, it doesn't deal with learning the phonetical system of Spanish at all.
However, I don't know how much continual development the teachers have in this field. And how much the parents have learned about what makes a good education. It is a departure from how education has been conducted in this country for a long time--and change is never easy, especially for older teachers who may be very set in their ways. At our first parents meeting, the teacher announced that she and the other two first grade teachers had decided not to use that textbook. A lot of parents seemed relieved--but I spoke up. I said, I'd read the book, I teach first year uni students and I think this book is exactly what students need to learn but 12 years ago were not learning. Several other parents then spoke up and said they wanted their children to use the book. The teacher as agreed to use the book. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| A lot of parents seemed relieved--but I spoke up. I said, I'd read the book, I teach first year uni students and I think this book is exactly what students need to learn but 12 years ago were not learning. Several other parents then spoke up and said they wanted their children to use the book. The teacher as agreed to use the book. |
Way to speak up! Too often people just go with the status quo, especially here in Mexico. And for parents who don't know what a good education really means, they're at the whims and preferences of perhaps traditional teachers and business-as-usual administration.
Imagine going into a pricey restaurant. The waiter serves you up whatever they're having that week without even asking what you want. After the meal, he cleans the table, charges you, doesn't even ask what you thought of the meal, and you're on your merry, indifferent way.
You've always got to know what you want. If you don't the means, at least be crystal clear on the objective. |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| so maybe we should discuss how we, as teachers can motivate students that don't really want to learn? |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| gregd75 wrote: |
| so maybe we should discuss how we, as teachers can motivate students that don't really want to learn? |
You can motivate all you want but that's not the root of the problem. Part of the reason students are not motivated is because they know it's virtually impossible to fail, that something can always be done so that they scrape through every semester without really learning anything. Perhaps they convince the teacher to give those extra decimas or they pay him or do a trabajo to get through etc., there's always a way. It's worse in private insititutions as even if the teacher fails you, the admin will soon rectify it, after all, you're a paying customer err... student.
Students carry this attitude into language schools where try as they might foreign teachers are continually disappointed by their school-bred lack of a desire to learn. Yes teacher that's all very nice but what's going to be in the exam? I'm studying a language so what doesn't come up in the exam, I won't ever need to know. How's that for logic?
First get an independent way of testing students. Exams if you will but exams teachers don't make or see beforehand. It should be up to the student to pass and the teacher to teach. Mexico is a long way from that. |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:05 am Post subject: |
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I completely agree with your post!
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| First get an independent way of testing students. Exams if you will but exams teachers don't make or see beforehand. It should be up to the student to pass and the teacher to teach. Mexico is a long way from that. |
However, I disagree with this 100%- IELTS, TOEFL, BULATS etc are completely independent exams available here in Mexico. Right now. Several universities here in GDL require students to take these exams which I guess is recognition of the problems with internally produced assessments.
As for language schools- maybe we should concentrate on the use MEANINGFUL English. Teaching to communicate rather than to pass such exams |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| gregd75 wrote: |
| However, I disagree with this 100%- IELTS, TOEFL, BULATS etc are completely independent exams available here in Mexico. Right now. Several universities here in GDL require students to take these exams which I guess is recognition of the problems with internally produced assessments. |
I mean you need to have independent exams within schools and universities in order to prepare them for the above exams. In 4 years in one uni I have sent 20 kids to the FCE exam, two thirds of which probably came in with that level. 9 semesters in the internal system of school-made exams prepares them to scrape a KET or at the most a PET. The point is, classroom English and testing in most schools here in no way prepares students to take an official exam.
The exams you mention really test their level of English. Internal ones don't. There's the rub. Students are not prepared and further compound their misery by relentlessly studying exam papers to try to pass official exams. What happened to the learning part? It's like trying to pass a driving test by repeatedly taking the exam until you do, senseless.
| gregd75 wrote: |
| As for language schools- maybe we should concentrate on the use MEANINGFUL English. Teaching to communicate rather than to pass such exams |
I think that's wishful thinking at this point. Students, and more importantly, companies want to see numbers, pass or fail. |
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