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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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 Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Despite your rather incredulous disapproval, the reasons for having two passports were rather more prosaic than espionage |
"Incredulous disapproval'? Oh, lighten up!
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| Israeli and Libyan visas which at that time restricted travel to a number of other countries. |
When did Britis need visas to visit Israel? |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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^ I should have written entry stamp. The reasons for having the same were explained on a previous thread here about having two passports, which I seem to recall produced the same expressions of disbelief and hands-raised-in-horror from the Colonials. Light enough for ya?  |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| The reasons for having the same were explained on a previous thread here about having two passports, which I seem to recall produced the same expressions of disbelief and hands-raised-in-horror from the Colonials. |
While I can honestly say I've no idea what you're going on about in the above sentence, are you suggesting that British citizens who travel to the Middle East will routinely be granted two passports if they wish to visit Israel? It would seem a bit of an extreme measure, given that Brits do not require visas to visit Israel and can instead have the entry stamp placed on a seperate piece of paper on request.
In any case, it's kind of beside the point, as the OP seemed to be describing a scenario in which he would enter a country with one passport and leave with another, which would cause considerable hassle no matter what the circumstances for his having been granted a second passport. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
While I can honestly say I've no idea what you're going on about in the above sentence |
Permit me, then, to refresh your memory. I was referring to the following thread to which we both contributed:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=83421
| Cleopatra wrote: |
are you suggesting that British citizens who travel to the Middle East will routinely be granted two passports if they wish to visit Israel?
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I am not suggesting. I know it to be a fact, because I had one. Twice. If such travel is likely to occur on a regular basis, then it used to be simplicity itself to obtain an additional travel document. Although as I said earlier, I have no current knowledge of the ease or difficulty involved, and the Libyan and South African stamps are of course no longer an issue. A second passport will however almost certainly still be given if one's passport already contains evidence of a visit to Israel.
| Cleopatra wrote: |
It would seem a bit of an extreme measure, given that Brits do not require visas to visit Israel and can instead have the entry stamp placed on a seperate piece of paper on request.
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Actually Brits DO require a tourist visa to visit Israel. It is issued free on arrival at the airport or border. Have you ever actually been to Israel? Thought not. Israeli security and border personnel can be notoriously obnoxious and are, in effect, a law unto themselves. Stating that you would like your entry stamp on a piece of paper because you work in the Gulf can be provocation enough for a little mischief. I know at least two other people working in the M.E. who had stamps 'accidentally' placed in their passports by vindictive Israeli immigration officers. The British Passport Authority are (or were) very aware of this situation and will therefore issue a second passport for travel to Israel.
You must also surely be aware that some citizens of the United Kingdom either work/study in Israel, or stay there for periods longer than the initial three months given on entry. In this event, the stamp-on-a-piece-of-paper is not an option and evidence of the visit will be recorded in the passport. Are they then to be excluded from visiting the countries which prohibit entry to those with Israeli stamps? I really do not understand why you find the issuance of a second passport to be such a big deal.
Last edited by PattyFlipper on Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Are they then to be excluded from visiting those countries which prohibit entry to those with Israeli stamps? |
I'd imagine that's a decision they'd have to make for themselves if they choose to spend extended periods in Israel. Is it the job of the British passport authorities to accommodate every possible permutation in every citizen's travel plans?
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| I really do not understand why you find the issuance of a second passport to be such a big deal. |
I don't know if it's a 'big deal'. I just think it's highly unusual, although you seem to think it quite routine. I have travelled quite widely in the Middle East over the years, and have met people of many nationalities, some of whom carry more than one passport - but I have never met anyone who has two concurrent passports issued by the same state. I have also contributed to travel discussion boards where the issue of Israeli passport stamps is discussed, and never has this possibility been mentioned.
Again, I'm not saying the possibility does not exist, just that it's very unusual in practice, and I would question if the issuance of a second British passport is quite as automatic as you seem to think.
In any case, whatever the truth of this matter, it's not relevant to the OP who seems to think he can turn up to a country with one passport and exit with another. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
Again, I'm not saying the possibility does not exist, just that it's very unusual in practice, and I would question if the issuance of a second British passport is quite as automatic as you seem to think.
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Of course, the speculative opinion of a non-Brit is bound to be far more authoritative than a citizen who has actually gone through the process.
Not everyone who travels is a TEFLer. There are lots of enterprises in the UK which do business with Israel and with states which prohibit entry to those with evidence of a visit to that country. I can't be bothered to post a link, but a few seconds with Google will show that the USA also issues additional travel documents to business people in the same situation. Simply because you, based on your anecdotal conversations, believe the practice to be unusual, does not mean that it actually is.
Last edited by PattyFlipper on Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course, the speculative opinion of a non-British citizen is bound to be far more authoritative than a citizen who has actually gone through the process. |
And who said:
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| I have no current knowledge of the ease or difficulty involved, |
Whatever. If you're saying all some British kibutznik has to do is ask the British consulate for a second concurrent passport and it will instantly be granted - despite the fact that an Israeli diplomat was recently expelled from London because of the theft of British passports - fine. Since the OP is American and was discussing a seperate issue, it's really neither here nor there. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| My final word on the subject as it becomes tedious. I didn't say Consulate. Legations overseas are NOT permitted to issue second passports. It has to be done through the Passport Authority offices in the UK, and you must also appear at the office in person - it cannot be done by post. |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| One of my friends is from Sudan he has a passport that says something like "Entry to all countries EXCEPT ISRAEL!" But he did go to Israel once while he was sailing in his boat. When he landed the Israelis authorities told him they can just stamp a bit of paper that can be stapled to his passport until he leaves then he can throw it away. unofrtunately some other people from Sudan didn't throw away their paper and were expelled from the country of Sudan forever they now live in London so mayeb they were lucky. |
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helenl
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 1202
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| How does the fact that most passports issued today are computer readable affect presenting a different passport at exit than presented at entry? Then the stamp issue and whether anyone looks at them in immigration is redundant but wouldn't the computer system flag a passport presented for exit that wasn't presented for entry? And thereby invite question and delay at the very least for the passport holder? |
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Captain Willard
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| helenl wrote: |
| How does the fact that most passports issued today are computer readable affect presenting a different passport at exit than presented at entry? Then the stamp issue and whether anyone looks at them in immigration is redundant but wouldn't the computer system flag a passport presented for exit that wasn't presented for entry? And thereby invite question and delay at the very least for the passport holder? |
It really depends how much information is being stored and who can access it. Are they looking to see if the person has an arrest warrant outstanding, or is that person's visa status and date of entry in the system? In the E.U., they recognize a right to privacy about government keeping data files on people. I don't think the regimes in the gulf are as enlightened. I think it still depends on who must prove what when leaving.
| Cleopatra wrote: |
| In any case, whatever the truth of this matter, it's not relevant to the OP who seems to think he can turn up to a country with one passport and exit with another. |
Oh, I don't think that it is possible. I know that I can enter one country in the E.U. with one passport and then leave with a different passport, because I have done it. 
I also know a dual national who laughed at an employer who threatened to keep his passport because he had another passport from another country... |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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So now, the issue has come full circle, namely, "Can it be done in the Middle East?" When I read yer last post, I just thought that you were trumpeting the fact that you have more than one passport. Big deal, right?
But then, I read yer OP and remembered that yer first post wuz about ME countries. Two questions here:
1. Why are you asking folk on an ESL teacher's discussion board? I mean, if someone were foolish enuf to give you the green light to do it...and you did...and you got caught...would that be yer line of defense..."But, someone on Dave's told me it was O.K.?" Sounds kinda nuts to me.
2. If this is such a burning issue with you, why don't you simply pick up the phone or visit yer local friendly embassy or consulate and ask?
Consider this OP question asked and answered...
NCTBA |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, I don't think that it is possible. I know that I can enter one country in the E.U. with one passport and then leave with a different passport, because I have done it. |
Did you require a visa to enter those EU countries? If not, the above information is simply irrelevant to the situation in the ME, as almost all Middle Eastern countries require 'westerners' to have visas to enter (and, in one or two cases, to leave).
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| I also know a dual national who laughed at an employer who threatened to keep his passport because he had another passport from another country... |
Would the same dude be laughing so much if he turned up at the airport with a passport containing no visa and/or entry stamp, thus making him an illegal migrant in the eyes of immigration authorities? |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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His post is a red herring, Cleo. As I pointed out his OP wuz about the Gulf...if he wants to ramble on about the EU, then let him.
At this point, conversation is...well...pointless...
NCTBA |
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Captain Willard
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
Did you require a visa to enter those EU countries? If not, the above information is simply irrelevant to the situation in the ME, as almost all Middle Eastern countries require 'westerners' to have visas to enter (and, in one or two cases, to leave). |
Except for other nationals of the Schengen zone therein, and the British-Irish Fee Travel Area, all visitors to E.U. countries require visas for lawful entry, although some here are very confused about what an entry visa is.
| Cleopatra wrote: |
Would the same dude be laughing so much if he turned up at the airport with a passport containing no visa and/or entry stamp, thus making him an illegal migrant in the eyes of immigration authorities? |
I've gotten some interesting PM's on the topic, but no one has actually claimed to to have had such an experience when using a second passport. It is, however, nice to see that the discussion has moved beyond questioning the fact that it is quite possible to acquire a second passport, especially if traveling in the Middle East. Considering the frequent stories posted about employers in the Middle East who feel entitled to unlawfully hold the property of a foreign government, it remains a relevant topic.
Really, I have been around long enough and seen enough of the world that I am not amazed by much anymore. |
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