Job Discussion Forums

[Professor]

[Professor]

[Professor]

[Professor]

[Professor]

Any relative newbies here in Mexico City? Please let us know how you're doing salary wise and if you've been here a year or longer and have focused on your career and job, have you advanced? Making more money??
It would be nice to hear from some newbies. Gracias.

[gregd75]

[gregd75]

Theres another dimension to this thread that I'd like to comment upon -The fact that university teachers are better off in terms of salary, professionalism, recognition etc.

Who would you hire if you were the university EFL program co-ordinator? A new starter with a 4-week teacher training certificate or a teacher with several years experience and a masters in EFL? This is a trick question of course- the newby is a native speaker and the masters level teacher is a non native speaker.

As English becomes a truly global language then we must accept that native speakers are not necessarily the only nor the best people to teach. Non native speakers (whose level of English is often better than an average native speaker!) have a lot to offer students.

My point being that the EFL job market becomes more and more competitive each year and there are a lot of people chasing the well paid, highly sought after positions. We (native speakers) should not and must not sit on our laurels and expect schools to snap us up simply because we have a certificate that supposedly proves that we can teach.

Students are now encouraged to develop portfolios of their studies and evidence of their abilities. Teachers should be doing the same too. It's not just about what you do in the classroom, but if you're serious about this career, then its about what you do outside the classroom too (referring to professional development)

[mejms]

My two cents:

1) Teaching is an underpaid profession across the globe. So is social work.

2) Mexico�s language businesses (language schools, colegios, and many universities) are very lenient about their qualifications for teaching professionals.

3) Many schools that have popped up overnight during the last 10-15 years because there was either a Mexican who spoke half-decent English or a foreigner who thought this was an easy business to get into... well, these organizations have made a mockery of the market.

4) There are some decent institutions around but by and large this is an exploited and cheapened industry.

But...

5) Mexico holds out attractive possibilities for a dedicated professional with personality who has an entrepreneurial bent. You won�t make what you could make in the states, but you won�t spend what you would spend there either. And no one initially comes to Mexico for the money, except for those above-mentioned get-rich-quick hacks.

6) If you offer something that other professionals and institutions don�t offer (which isn�t too hard considering the low-brow nature of this field in so many places), you rise above the mainstream herd of teachers.

[MotherF]

The same people who are slaming others for generalizing seem to be doing it themselves.

[Phil_K]

[gregd75]

MotherF- I didn't want to discount native speakers with masters, as you comment- that was not my intention at all.

I just wanted to point out that here on Daveseslcafe we seem to finish these threads with the same conclusion (I'm not supporting or arguing with the point- just observing);

Language schools pay and conditions are bad
Private schools are a little better
Universities pay well and are the Shangri-La for EFL professionals.

However, my point was that often non native speakers with several years experience have these posts (and do a splendid job)

I didn't mean to discount native speakers with masters/doctorates at all. With the movement by the SEP towards teacher certification, people will find Uni posts increasingly inaccessible as more qualified candidates are applying for the same job.

[Prof.Gringo]

I find it a bit odd (to say the least) that some people are now knocking the value of a TEFL cert.

That's considered the minimum to enter the EFL field. Often people have posted (on all of the forums I have read) saying how most people should invest in a 4 week, 120 TEFL/CELTA/TESOL course. It costs a good bit of money and it's a sizable investment for most of the EFL teachers who only ever teach for a few years at the most before moving on.

I know some great teachers (both Mexican and native speakers) who have no formal training in EFL/ESL at all. One teacher I worked with, she was a vet by training. She is a great teacher working for one of the most recognized schools in Mexico City.

There seems to be a "push" for EFL teachers to somehow take training beyond a TEFL/CELTA and a lot of that push comes from schools and organizations that already make big bucks by pushing acronym tests and courses.

I think that the investment that is required for the payback (at least in the Mexican EFL market) just isn't worth it for most. If I took course "ABC" from "XYZ" school and could have some real hope of it paying for itself, sure I would see the point. But to just take a course for another few grand and then be stuck competing for the same low paying dead-end EFL jobs, no thanks. That's money that would be better spent in investing in my real career back in the States where I would see a real payback and have real results, not just another TEFL ACRONYM.

And yes, if we as teachers are judged by our results (in both student learning and student retention), I see no reason to hold any EFL employer to the same standard.

Some have said that we must go to work for ourselves. That's not my thing. I don't feel like doing sales, management, recruiting and teaching while I absorb all the risks. Why does it seem too much to ask to see a real career path and plan from even one EFL employer?

The reason why I pushed a Mexican Teachers Diploma before was the fact that such a cert. is recognized in Mexico by Mexican employers while a TEFL or even a CELTA sometimes causes a school's HR people to scratch their heads.

I don't need a Ph.D. in linguistics to teach the ABC's of English as a second language. Maybe if I wanted to make a career of it, but I would probably be much better off investing in a MBA program, as language schools, colegios and uni's are all the same in one way; they are all businesses. They are all run to make money.

Besides, with a MBA I could always get a real job

[Samantha]

Has it been flowing pretty thick and deep around here lately, or is it just my imagination?