Job Discussion Forums

[eIn0791207912]

Hey guys,

Some of you know me. But for those who don't, let me give you a rundown of my situation. I've been teaching English in Korea for a few years now. Have tried to make the jump to Japan, but the timing has never really worked out.

I'm trying to find a way to live in Japan, and I'm exploring a few avenues. I feel teaching is probably out of the question. For several reasons, it just doesn't look like that is an option anymore. After 4 years, I'm frankly tired of it. But also, it looks like the teaching market there isn't getting any better, flooded. And, I'm 27 with quite a bit of experience. I've heard most schools want young and fresh teachers they can mold to their liking (as well as pay lower.)

This got me thinking about getting my masters degree in Japan. I'm all for that. It would be great for two years, but after that, what is there? I'll probably get my MA in Economics, or Poli Sci, or International Relations, or Business... something along those lines. What work for me would there be?

As it stands now, I'm so sick of Korea and I feel I've spent too much time here to have what I have. But I don't want to climb down the ladder in Japan and make less, live worse, and get more frustrated than I already am about where my life is.

If some of you long timers could throw a bit of advice my way, I'd be eternally grateful.

Your Friend,
ein

[Apsara]

Two major fields that non-Japanese work in here are IT and finance, at the Japan (usually Tokyo) offices of foreign companies. Good business level Japanese (JLPT 2 absolute minimum) is usually a requirement to get your foot in the door these days (post Lehman shock), as is experience in the field outside Japan.

Entry-level work is very hard to come by, more so if your Japanese isn't fairly fluent.

[Glenski]

[the4th2001]

Glenski's got it straight, but I'm bored and want to toss in a little extra.

First and foremost, what's your Japanese level?

Most university programs here (particularly English ones) are a joke and on par with what you may find in Korea. If you're looking to get into a decent school and use its networks to find a job, then you're probably solid. If you're looking for a decent education that'll be recognized in other countries and back home, then you best consider other options. If for whatever reason you do end up applying for school here, keep in mind that application periods/start dates depends on both the university and the MA program.

Something else to consider are certifications*. As silly as it may sound, they usually hold more weight than actual degrees and help with getting better jobs/slightly higher salary. Senmon-gakko (junior colleges) focus on various certs, but the classes tend to be taught in Japanese. Although most can't help you get a visa, there are probably some that can. You just have to look into it to find out.

What do you want to do exactly? Realistically, degrees in Economics, Business, International Relations, etc, will get you relatively nothing. Those with MAs usually start out at third-year salary levels (about 40,000 JPY/month more than freshmen, so roughly 250,000 JPY before social insurance and tax deductions) and may find themselves doing work unrelated to their degrees. Although I'm mainly referring Japanese companies, you need to take note that most foreign companies hiring in Japan typically follow Japanese hiring procedures and salary scales. The foreigners here earning decent salaries working at foreign financial firms/etc. are more often than not hired from outside of Japan . . . which explains those nice paychecks.

In regards to job hunting, sites NOT focusing on foreigners are considerably better. Although some people will say that its hard to get interviews and complain about racial discrimination, chances are they have no idea what they're talking about. A couple of sites that have worked decently for me are:

http://rikunabi-next.yahoo.co.jp/rnc/
https://tenshoku.mynavi.jp/
http://townwork.net/h/r/Fh00020s_lac_01 (I used this for part time jobs during college)
https://job.rikunabi.com/2012/ (I haven't used this personally, but it's solid from what I understand)

Career-wise, foreigners will have an advantage with international trade, accounting/bookkeeping, and IT. If you have paralegal experience and decent Japanese, then there are even more options available to you.

Realistically though, the job market is nasty and it's not expected to bounce back anytime soon. Unemployment is high and the number of Japanese working full-time jobs are down. If you do come here looking for work, expect the worst and prepare a backup plan (not English teaching).

~~JLPT Rant~~

People will tell you that you need JLPT to get a job. That's BS. You need JLPT to get into college (typically level 1) and senmon-gakko (typically level 2). As far as jobs are concerned though, most employers don't even know what JLPT is and often confuse it for nihongokentei. If your Japanese is good enough, then there's nothing to worry about. So, what's good enough you may ask? That depends entirely on your interviewer. Other people's opinions are worthless.


*Bookkeeping, Accounting, Japanese CFA, Color and Coordinating, Japanese, English, Math, International Trade, Marketing, Business/Sales, Textiles, Graphic Design, other computer related stuff, Clothing Design, etc.

[Apsara]

[the4th2001]

[eIn0791207912]

Currently I don't speak any Japanese. But I figure I have at least another year or year and a half left in Korea before I can make the jump over for school.

Most of the schools I've looked at require a lengthy application process that begins in the fall for admission the next fall. So it will probably be next year before I can apply again and the year after (or possible early spring) before I get in.

So if I started studying now, that would probably give me two years of self study just to get the basics down. And for a 2 year MA course, most programs require Japanese language classes. So I guess my level will be at whatever is to be expected of someone with 4 years of study, 2 of them in country. But I don't have grand expectations I guess. I recognize that it's a very difficult language to learn.

You may be scoffing or thinking "why would you try to live/work in Japan if you don't know Japanese?" Well consider that even though on the whole, Korean English is pretty terrible, it's quite easy to live here without ever even taking a Korean class. I'm living proof of that. I've never bought a book or taken a Korean class, yet I'm 4 years on here now and have only had a few occasions where the language barrier was a big issue. Japan is really the only place I've heard of that if you don't speak the native tongue, it's going to be very difficult. For those of us in the expact world, it's common knowledge that the Japanese have probably the worse English level of any non-English speaking country. Ironic really, considering their close economic and military ties to the States.


As for working in finance, I've often been drawn here. I have a business degree and have looked into getting an MBA to continue down that path. The only issue I've found is that, MBA's from outside Japan are respected in the rest of the world, but not really all that much in Japan (unless it's an Ivy League school.) And MBA's from within Japan, while useful in country and somewhat respected, are laughed at anywhere else in the world. I don't want to live and work in Japan forever, so getting an MBA there would seem almost like a waste of time. This is why I think something like economics or international relations might be a better choice as it earns a bit more credibility outside, but shares much of what would be learned in a financed focused MBA. I'm not sure about Japanese corporate structure, but I know at home there is so much that gets lumped into "finance" that it's easy to discount the usefulness of a slightly different degree that can give you a competitive edge is some areas.

[seklarwia]

[the4th2001]

Which schools are you looking at specifically?

I've attended two top tier schools here and currently looking at MA Accounting (or something equivalent) programs for 2012. Ideally I would like to sit the Japanese CPA exam. At any rate though, I may be able to give better advice if I know which schools you're leaning towards.

To be honest, studying for 4 years means different things to different people. I have Korean friends who came to Japan knowing nothing in January, studied at a Japanese language school, and ended up passing JLPT L1 first try in December of the same year. At the same time, I've met several westerners who've been here for 3 ~ 17 years, studied for most, and still unable to communicate at a JLPT L3 level.

Hopefully someone else like Apsara can weigh in with their own experiences/knowledge, but the only working foreigners I've met here that don't speak decent levels of Japanese are: a couple IT folks, most English teachers, most expats hired abroad and transferred over. Sure living here without Japanese skills is a breeze. Unfortunately, the same can't be said of job hunting. Think about Korea. You said it's easy to live there knowing no Korean, but would a foreigner with no Korean skills be able to find a proper job? Japan and Korea are very similar in many ways. Realistically in both countries, the chances are very low for a foreigner with lower level language skills to get hired locally.

I hear you on the MBA, but Economics? Aoyama Gakuin University is suppose to have a decent Econ focused PhD program, but it's not highly recognized outside of Japan. A former, Irish professor of mine went through that program and although he ended up getting a job at the Bank of Italy in Tokyo, he always took the piss out marketing his education overseas.

[Apsara]

[Glenski]