Job Discussion Forums

[Bule_Gila]

If Indonesia wants to increase their qualifications for expat ESl teachers, they are free to do so, but they should be realistic at the same time. They should compare themselves to their neighbors, as it pertains to packages, lifestyle, availability of core facilities, etc. Indonesia is the only 3rd world country in the area ( Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei), so why should they raise their standards to the level of developed, neighboring countries, if they can't provide the same incentives as their neighbors?

The most they should do now is require all expat teachers to have a min High school diploma, CELTA/Trintiy or Equivalent, and teaching experience. This is what most schools here are asking for now. I remember back in 2004 an person could secure employment with only a high school diploma!

As the situation here improves, so should the requirements rise

[travelNteach]

@ eddie, not sure where u get your figures from or what your business experience is, but i disagree. seems more a an emotional reaction than a logical well thought out arguement. do u really think that 95% of the languages schools are operating on such a small profit margin that a small increase in teacher�s salaries would bankrupt them or force them to hire only local teachers? and why do u assume that all locals are unqualified. I have done many teaching observations over the years, i would say that the locals are much better than these people whose only job skill is being a native speaker.

take any language school. We can use a generalization of ef as an example (I have a specific ef in mind but wont use the name). Although it will vary from school to school, it will prove my point. Class sizes are supposed to be from 8-14 students. To make the math easy, lets use 10 for our example. Typical contracts call for 24 hours of teaching. Each class usually meets for 2 hour/day 2x/week. 1 course typically takes 3 months and 1 week from beginning to completion. Using 8 million as an average salary, we can also factor in 900,000 for bule tax, 1 million/month for visa/insurance and other incidentals, 1 million for flight home, and 700,000 for 13th month salary. Rounding up, 1 teacher is costing approx 11 million/month. Students pay 2million/32 hour course that takes approx 3 months. The teacher has 60 students�. 60x2=120,000,000/3months=40,000,000 month. Of course each situation is different, but in the scenario, the owner is making 29 million/teacher. Most schools have between 5-10 teachers.

Of course there are other expenses:
Most owners own the schools and the teachers� houses........ no overhead (minor repairs maybe), but lots of appreciation should he ever decide to sell. The teachers cover utilities and maids' salaries. The owner is supposed to pay 10% franchise fee, re-invest 10% on marketing, he has school utilities to pay for, admin staff, cleaning staff, car maintenance, drivers, local teachers, books, and the like. However, these are not prohibitive costs because they are spread out over the tuition paid by all of the students enrolled at the school. Even figuring costs on the high end and enrollment at the low end, school owners are still turning a handsome profit. It certainly wouldn�t bankrupt them to increase teachers� salaries a few million per month. He could either deal with a lower profit margin, or raise prices slightly to help offset the teachers� salaries. Other costs such as visa, airfare, insurance and the like are fixed and unaffected by raising teachers� salaries.

If these laws come into effect and are actually enforced, schools would have to adapt. Ef already uses half local half native speaker for children�s classes. Would some go bankrupt, maybe a few that are already living on the edge. There are probably more schools that only have native speakers than schools with native speakers. These might not be as well known or as large, but they are still successful enterprises turning a profit. IMHO, LIA is one of the best schools around and the hire only local teachers. The students are confident and communicative.

This seems to be an emotional response of someone whose livelihood is threatened, not a logical decision on what is best for the students. There are plenty of other countries that already have these regulations in place and the esl industry hasn�t collapsed. Look at Thailand, ever since they arrested that Canadian pedophile, they have been very strict in enforcing college degrees and even police background checks. The salaries are comparable to Indonesia and the cost of living is much higher. Still they have tons of people trying to work there. In general, when u factor in salary and benefits vs cost of living and quality of life, I don�t think 1 country has much of an advantage over any other country or EVERYONE would be trying to teach there. Basically it comes down to an individual�s personal desire and country choice, or a specific school offering a great package or long vacations, or professional development or whatever it is that that person deems important.

If u care about your students and want to teach for a career, why not get an education and certification? Then u don�t need to worry about any new policies that they put in place, u will be covered. Also u will be truly global as u will be able to teach in any country in the world and work at international schools vs language mills. World of difference in salary, benefits, development, quality of life and job satisfaction.

[travelNteach]

@ BG finally things are back to normal...... i disagree with u. lol
i like indonesia, it has a little of the old wild west mentality. i would die of boredom living in singapore. it is clean and the food is great but they people are like robots/zombies.

i think when u compare like schools.... language mill to language mill, or international school to international school..... the pay vs cost of living is pretty close across the board. if not, people would all be flocking to the same place and shunning all others. then as u said, the enjoyment of life plays a factor. with all the whining that goes on at the korean board, korea has to pay more to attract and retain teachers. same with the sterilty of saudi araba. some actually enjoy these places, but most just grab the money and run. nothing wrong with that.

i used to make 4000/month in japan. much more than most people. but didnt enjoy it. i live here and have a blast and still save 1500/month. i dont live on a budget and travel all the time, both domestically and internationally. so for me, indo actually offers me much more than i could reasonably expect in any of the neighboring countries.

and i totally disagree that having a high school diploma is enough to teach, with or without a 120 hr course. teachers should have more education than those they are teacher. to teach at a uni, u must have a masters. to teach k-12 u must have a BA. if thailand, vietnam and other countries can demand it, why not indonesia. lots of people here do have degrees and yet we still came. i think wages/benefits packages would increase somewhat to attract more qualified and get rid of some of the unqualifed. no big deal. u wouldnt want a dental receptionist doing your root canal would ya?

[eddie honda]

[aku_tonpa]

Interesting. Does anyone have any direct experience of teachers having to leave or being turned away because they don't have a the BA/MA that is now needed?

How about degrees like a BA (Hons) Education with Psychology Studies or similar? They don't give QTS, are they cosidered relevant enough to teach here?

[Bule_Gila]

@ TravelNteach

Now you are discussing a persons intention to teach at a certain location.

I agree with you on most points made, as I enjoy teaching here, although I could make more elsewhere.

I believe that Indonesia's requirement should increase to match its development.

[Durian Tango]

@aku_tonpa:

I can tell you that those with degrees that match the requirements are getting through OK (though not without delay) and it seems that the BA is the most important piece of paper - whereas the TEFL certificate doesn't seem to be important i.e. a 60 hour TEFL course is fine, as long as the BA fits.

For those with a BA in say Psychology - they are not going through, even if they have a CELTA or Trinity or something similar. Even those with a degree in Education seem to be having trouble if it's not specifically in English, though it appears there is some room for negotiation on these finer points.

It's tough times at the moment, but I already sense that DIKNAS is re-visiting how strict they are being on these degrees and that we haven't heard the last word from them yet.