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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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 Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think that one of the PROs of teaching in a language school is that the students are very different. (Well, I'm talking from my experience). The previous comments about students attitude towards learning English is quite true in general, but I have found that in language schools, the students seem to more engaged.
I imagine it's because the students are paying out of their own pockets and they are making a sacrifice in order to pay for their classes. We don't have any problems with students attitude, or failing to learn nor the idea that paying for the course means one will pass.
We DO have some students that fail and this is mostly because students don't consider the time commitment needed to study English. Other than that, teachers ARE responsible for students learning and they are not able to pass the buck.
Advantage number 2. Classes are small and personal. Students get to build a relationship with their teachers. Students are engaged because of smaller group sizes. As language schools are businesses they cant get away with 30 or 40 in a group like public schools often do.
Advantage number 3. Administrative processes are kept to a minimum. I mean, in public schools, private schools and universities I often hear that teachers spend a lot of time grading homework, making exams and marking them. I guess this is valuable if you're teaching English in order to pass an exam. If you're teaching English in order for students to meaningfully use the language then these administrative functions are not as necessary (of course there is some administration)
Advantage 4. Some teachers don't want to commit to a full year contract so a language schools options can be attractive. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
| Professor wrote: |
[/b]The FAIL light comes on many times because a LOT of people here AREN'T MOTIVATED or just DON'T CARE to learn how to SPEAK English. So yea, sometimes people need to get out of dodge when the FAIL light comes on, but a LOT of the time it's NOT the fault of the TEACHER that that light keeps coming on. It the MENTALITY of the students. Nuf said.  |
That mentality comes from the education system here. Who'd have thought it, education destroys learning! |
Education systems around the world are set up not to encourage optimal learning. Mexico is not an exception. Mexico just seems to excell at keeping its masses down. (Though the US has certainly been making ground in the last 20 years!) |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
| Mexico just seems to excell at keeping its masses down. |
Yep. Sad but true.  |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
| Professor wrote: |
| [/b]The FAIL light comes on many times because a LOT of people here AREN'T MOTIVATED or just DON'T CARE to learn how to SPEAK English. So yea, sometimes people need to get out of dodge when the FAIL light comes on, but a LOT of the time it's NOT the fault of the TEACHER that that light keeps coming on. It the MENTALITY of the students. Nuf said. |
That mentality comes from the education system here. Who'd have thought it, education destroys learning! |
Education systems around the world are set up not to encourage optimal learning. Mexico is not an exception. Mexico just seems to excell at keeping its masses down. |
Mexicans have on average a 7th grade education.
Although I would think in the larger cities there are more people with at least secundaria in the more rural areas, many people fail to even complete primaria.
I'll never forget the time at a langauge school there was a student that could barely read and write in Spanish. The how and why of why he was even trying to learn English let alone being allowed to enroll by the school escaped me untill I remembered it was a language school and profit was the only motivation. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
Mexicans have on average a 7th grade education.
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 WOW! |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
| Professor wrote: |
| [/b]The FAIL light comes on many times because a LOT of people here AREN'T MOTIVATED or just DON'T CARE to learn how to SPEAK English. So yea, sometimes people need to get out of dodge when the FAIL light comes on, but a LOT of the time it's NOT the fault of the TEACHER that that light keeps coming on. It the MENTALITY of the students. Nuf said. |
That mentality comes from the education system here. Who'd have thought it, education destroys learning! |
Oh, come, in any country and any kind of school I've taught in, there have always been students who wanted to learn, or at least wanted to pass the course, and those who could care less and put no effort into the class. It's not just in Mexico that this is true. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Better to use actual numbers rather than words like many or average.
http://www.inegi.org.mx/sistemas/sisept/Default.aspx?t=medu09&s=est&c=26364
in the 2005 census, 22.7 percent of the population had no secondary studies.
21.7 had completed only through secondary. 18.5 had completed media superior (high school) and 13.6 had completed high education. For a total of 53.8 percent of the population with more than primary.
We can assume that the only primary completed includes mostly people of the tercera edad who grew up in a very different Mexico.
I make this assumption based on this page
http://www.inegi.org.mx/sistemas/sisept/default.aspx?t=medu05&s=est&c=21774
That shows that in 2005 82.5% of the 13 to 15 year olds attened school
That figure unfortunately drops to 47.8% for 16 to 19 year olds. |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| gregd75 wrote: |
I think that one of the PROs of teaching in a language school is that the students are very different. (Well, I'm talking from my experience). The previous comments about students attitude towards learning English is quite true in general, but I have found that in language schools, the students seem to more engaged.
I imagine it's because the students are paying out of their own pockets and they are making a sacrifice in order to pay for their classes. We don't have any problems with students attitude, or failing to learn nor the idea that paying for the course means one will pass. |
I think language schools are lucky because of the fact that Mexicans will still pay to talk to a native speaker (usually a monolingual backpacker) and not consider that they need a good teacher, or someone who has at least bothered to learn another language and can offer them some insight into the process. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
Better to use actual numbers rather than words like many or average.
http://www.inegi.org.mx/sistemas/sisept/Default.aspx?t=medu09&s=est&c=26364
in the 2005 census, 22.7 percent of the population had no secondary studies.
21.7 had completed only through secondary. 18.5 had completed media superior (high school) and 13.6 had completed high education. For a total of 53.8 percent of the population with more than primary.
We can assume that the only primary completed includes mostly people of the tercera edad who grew up in a very different Mexico.
I make this assumption based on this page
http://www.inegi.org.mx/sistemas/sisept/default.aspx?t=medu05&s=est&c=21774
That shows that in 2005 82.5% of the 13 to 15 year olds attened school
That figure unfortunately drops to 47.8% for 16 to 19 year olds. |
My statistics came from the book: "When in Mexico, Do as the Mexicans Do"
Published 2005 by McGraw Hill
Page 34, Education, Problems, Solutions
The figures presented are a little dated, but the trends remain much the same.
Also, how many children in Mexico don't even exist? By that I mean, how many kids are born without a birth cert and thus can not attend school at all? I don't have any statistics handy, but the number is large and the government has been trying to get all children to have their births registered and to have the ability to receive basic education and the rights afforded a Mexican citizen. |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
My statistics came from the book: "When in Mexico, Do as the Mexicans Do"
Published 2005 by McGraw Hill
Page 34, Education, Problems, Solutions
The figures presented are a little dated, but the trends remain much the same.
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I'd be curious to know where the statistics in the McGraw Hill book come from. How dated are they? |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
My statistics came from the book: "When in Mexico, Do as the Mexicans Do"
Published 2005 by McGraw Hill
Page 34, Education, Problems, Solutions
The figures presented are a little dated, but the trends remain much the same.
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I'd be curious to know where the statistics in the McGraw Hill book come from. How dated are they? |
Not that dated! |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
My statistics came from the book: "When in Mexico, Do as the Mexicans Do"
Published 2005 by McGraw Hill
Page 34, Education, Problems, Solutions
The figures presented are a little dated, but the trends remain much the same.
|
I'd be curious to know where the statistics in the McGraw Hill book come from. How dated are they? |
Not that dated! |
That's rather vague. And you still haven't told us where the author of this book got his or her figures from. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
My statistics came from the book: "When in Mexico, Do as the Mexicans Do"
Published 2005 by McGraw Hill
Page 34, Education, Problems, Solutions
The figures presented are a little dated, but the trends remain much the same.
|
I'd be curious to know where the statistics in the McGraw Hill book come from. How dated are they? |
Not that dated! |
That's rather vague. And you still haven't told us where the author of this book got his or her figures from. |
From SEP |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Mexicans have on average a 7th grade education. |
| Quote: |
| n the 2005 census, 22.7 percent of the population had no secondary studies. 21.7 had completed only through secondary. 18.5 had completed media superior (high school) and 13.6 had completed high education. For a total of 53.8 percent of the population with more than primary. |
[my highlighting]
Can someone with expertise in interpreting statistics please explain how these two ways of expressing Mexican educational attainment be reconciled? |
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