Job Discussion Forums

[beg13]

I appreciate the people who posted. I'm unsatisfied though. Guess I'll head to another forum to try to find more people willing to talk about their impressions of society in Hong Kong.

[RiverMystic]

The problems with HK education and society are essentially the same as other East Asian nations: a focus upon examinations, passive students, dull and uninspiring teachers, the over-commodification of education in general. Like Japan, Hong Kong became rich on the back of manufacturing (in part) but that phase has passed to the mainland. Now everyone wants to be rich by studying "business". There is little creativity, and entrepreneurship is dying. Property speculation is the preferred way to get rich now, and streets that were previously lined with small businesses are now lined with real estate agents.

It's interesting to observe the limits of civilisations and their worldviews. The problems in some western nations, esp. the USA, point to the limitations of individualism and the capitalist mindset - or the free-ride socialist mindset (Europe). In Asia you can see the limits of Confucian (influenced) societies. They just become soulless machines with everyone crawling up the backside of the guy on the next run of the ladder, in the hopes of buying "connections", and constantly complaining out of a sense of complete powerless - the cog in the machine syndrome. East Asian cultures destroy the soul and inner worlds, as they turn increasingly towards mindless repetition of information, conservatism, passivity and a peculiar disembodiment that results from the elevation of the geek mind. The young in Chinese societies spend most of their spare time zonked out in front of computers (44% of free time, latest surveys), or sms-ing people who aren't actually present - while ignoring all connection and communication with people around them, and all joy in the present moment. Most people here suffer from low-grade depression, and their countenance in public life appears morbid and joyless. As one local teacher told me as he explained why he was leaving the secondary education system: "I can no longer participate in the mechanisation of the human being." I have sat and listened to talks by the young in Hong Kong saying exactly these things. Many feel desperate, helpless.

I know this sounds harsh, but, at least in Hong Kong, I think the quality of life is very poor for most people. As a society they have lost awareness of the simple things that make life worth living. Here's hoping that somehow they find their way again. The frog slowly boiling in water, though, is an apt metaphor.

[beg13]

RiverMystic,
I want to thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it. This is what I was afraid of. But you're confirming something I suspected.
I wonder if any good can come of participating in the system here as well. I find it debilitating sometimes. Although I'm so lucky! I think the system here is crushing young people. It's hard, being something of a liberal humanist, to come to terms with the way things are in Japan/Asia. I guess it's not much different in other parts of East Asia.
Perhaps your comment brings this post to fruition. I still suspect that the situation is somewhat worse here in Japan because of demographics. But that trend will hit everywhere in East Asia soon enough. Also, because of Japan's corporate and education culture, there is so little student exchange here and a real insularity. But again, the nature of the societies may share some similarly depressing qualities. Japan will be the first country for everyone to watch. In the next few years we will see Japan deal with massive costs and debts and probably massive cuts in benefits. Many young people here are either oblivious or brainwashed by their elder's campaign to convince them of all the supposed good things they have passed down. In reality they are passing down a failed system and a future of deprivation.
I'd like to think things are otherwise. I'd like my students to open their minds and explore their futures successfully. But it's a pretty tough situation.
Again thanks. I'm grateful for your input.
I wonder if anyone will have a more optimistic take? I'd like to be more optimistic about Japan. But it's a pretty tall order.

[RiverMystic]

One difference is that HK will continue to benefit from China's growth - assuming there are no major economic problems in the PRC - and that is a big if. No boom lasts forever.

One thing I can point out is that you don't have to participate in the typical lifestyle of the average-income HK person - About US$1400 a month, or US$2400 per household per month - all living in a 450 square foot apartment 50 stories off the ground in a dense urban jungle. This is why people are losing their souls. Connection with the Earth and nature is absolutely vital to mental/spiritual well-being. Hong Kong and Han Chinese culture has become almost completely alienated from nature. My sense is that the Japanese have a much better awareness and respect for nature. In HK many kids never touch grass or trees, and spend all their spare time surfing the net or shopping. They just don't know any better. In fact there are classes here to rectify "biophobia" - fear of nature. Many kids are terrified of trees , grass, animals.

The irony is that HK has many great country parks, islands, and hikes (and you can take advantage of them any time). I live on an island just 20 minutes from downtown. But the beautiful hikes are deserted on weekends, while the shopping malls are jam packed. It's just sad.

[beg13]

I think the respect for nature is a bit superficial here. But there is more space here and perhaps you're right to some degree. During Showa they paved over 60% of the shoreline here and encased all the rivers in concrete. There are nature spots and I've been camping in Japan. It's a large country. They love concrete, or rather, concrete companies got a lot of free money to pour concrete over the sides of mountains.
Oh well! But HK sounds like a different situation the way you describe it. I haven't heard of that phobia here. Of course the big phobia here is agoraphobia or "hikikomuri" - fear of leaving one's house. This is a widespread affliction in Japan. But there are relatively nice spots for outdoor activities if you can get out the door.

[Serious_Fun]

[Perilla]

I have to agree with RM's observations, and not much to add really.

It's a cliche, but money is the root of all evil, and perhaps more so in HK than anywhere else.

It's at least partly their obsession with money (and earning it) that stops them doing creative things. Creative things (arts and crafts, writing and poetry, etc.) generally don't pay very well.

Travel costs money too, so they don't do much of that either. When I tell a local colleague that I once spent a year in South America just travelling, I nearly always get a response along the lines of " ... but that must have cost you so much!"

The desire - or obsession - with money also means that they spend too long at work, so even if they want to do something offbeat they tend not to have enough time to do it - a vicious circle.

I'm generalising of course. There are signs of hope - there is a growing green movement here and an increasing sense of place and heritage, which will hopefully continue to expand and deepen, but there's a long way to go.

It would be interesting to get a local's input on this thread (whether from HK or Japan) and see if they agree with our views of their society.

[kowlooner]

BS Alert:

[RiverMystic]

Kowlooner: BS Alert:

[kowlooner]

Sorry, perhaps I should have been clearer:

Rivermystic BS Alert.

[Perilla]

[RiverMystic]

[kowlooner]

[Perilla]

Staying with the HK universities theme, there are two general observations that immediately come to mind, having spent over 10 years here including a fair bit of contact with local universities and their students ...

1. Compared to the UK (I can't make a comparison with anywhere else), HK's university students are rather naive and unworldly, and

2. The range of topics available for study in HK unis is overwhelmingly biased towards science and business. There are remarkably few arts-based options.

The reasons for 2 are roughly attributable to the local money obsession mentioned earlier, though I couldn't say what causes 1. Complicated, no doubt.

[beg13]

[quote="Perilla"]Staying with the HK universities theme, there are two general observations that immediately come to mind, having spent over 10 years here including a fair bit of contact with local universities and their students ...

1. Compared to the UK (I can't make a comparison with anywhere else), HK's university students are rather naive and unworldly, and

2. The range of topics available for study in HK unis is overwhelmingly biased towards science and business. There are remarkably few arts-based options.

The reasons for 2 are roughly attributable to the local money obsession mentioned earlier, though I couldn't say what causes 1. Complicated, no doubt.[/quote]

The same goes for Japan for the most part.