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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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 Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| If you want to learn a language you need to be exposed to it, something which is now more accesible than ever yet still overlooked |
Which is why I now prefer the use of videos to text-books (I use at least one video per lesson). As Enchilada says, these resources are so easily available these days. It is necessary to teach "difficult" grammar sometimes and what better than to swallow your pride, say, "Hey! This guy does it much better than I do!" and let him teach it in a fun way. Kind of like employing a great teacher for nothing! |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you want to learn a language you need to be exposed to it, something which is now more accesible than ever yet still overlooked |
Which is why I now prefer the use of videos to text-books (I use at least one video per lesson). As Enchilada says, these resources are so easily available these days. It is necessary to teach "difficult" grammar sometimes and what better than to swallow your pride, say, "Hey! This guy does it much better than I do!" and let him teach it in a fun way. Kind of like employing a great teacher for nothing! |
Now if you can tweak that just a bit more and squeeze some communicative practice - real practice - you'd be right on the money I think. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Guy Courchesne wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you want to learn a language you need to be exposed to it, something which is now more accesible than ever yet still overlooked |
Which is why I now prefer the use of videos to text-books (I use at least one video per lesson). As Enchilada says, these resources are so easily available these days. It is necessary to teach "difficult" grammar sometimes and what better than to swallow your pride, say, "Hey! This guy does it much better than I do!" and let him teach it in a fun way. Kind of like employing a great teacher for nothing! |
Now if you can tweak that just a bit more and squeeze some communicative practice - real practice - you'd be right on the money I think. |
Watch this space!  |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you want to learn a language you need to be exposed to it, something which is now more accesible than ever yet still overlooked |
Which is why I now prefer the use of videos to text-books (I use at least one video per lesson). As Enchilada says, these resources are so easily available these days. It is necessary to teach "difficult" grammar sometimes and what better than to swallow your pride, say, "Hey! This guy does it much better than I do!" and let him teach it in a fun way. Kind of like employing a great teacher for nothing! |
I had the impression that Enchildada was referring to a very different type of video resources than grammar ones when he said this:
| Quote: |
| If you want to learn a language you need to be exposed to it, something which is now more accesible than ever yet still overlooked. I'm not talking about interactive grammar orientated software or websites (if it looks like a coursebook, you won't learn from it), just the language itself. Yes, it takes time. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you want to learn a language you need to be exposed to it, something which is now more accesible than ever yet still overlooked |
Which is why I now prefer the use of videos to text-books (I use at least one video per lesson). As Enchilada says, these resources are so easily available these days. It is necessary to teach "difficult" grammar sometimes and what better than to swallow your pride, say, "Hey! This guy does it much better than I do!" and let him teach it in a fun way. Kind of like employing a great teacher for nothing! |
I had the impression that Enchildada was referring to a very different type of video resources than grammar ones when he said this:
| Quote: |
| If you want to learn a language you need to be exposed to it, something which is now more accesible than ever yet still overlooked. I'm not talking about interactive grammar orientated software or websites (if it looks like a coursebook, you won't learn from it), just the language itself. Yes, it takes time. |
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For sure, but unfortunately to reach a high level it's necessary to understand grammar, and this in a fun and highly visual way of doing it (it doesn't look like a coursebook!). I also use videos from which you can extract conversation topics, debates, etc, and particularly those related to their line of work, or even those produced by their foreign (English-speaking) parent companies. That really helps them connect! |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you want to learn a language you need to be exposed to it, something which is now more accesible than ever yet still overlooked |
Which is why I now prefer the use of videos to text-books (I use at least one video per lesson). As Enchilada says, these resources are so easily available these days. It is necessary to teach "difficult" grammar sometimes and what better than to swallow your pride, say, "Hey! This guy does it much better than I do!" and let him teach it in a fun way. Kind of like employing a great teacher for nothing! |
I had the impression that Enchildada was referring to a very different type of video resources than grammar ones when he said this:
| Quote: |
| If you want to learn a language you need to be exposed to it, something which is now more accesible than ever yet still overlooked. I'm not talking about interactive grammar orientated software or websites (if it looks like a coursebook, you won't learn from it), just the language itself. Yes, it takes time. |
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Yes mejms, my idea being to get away from the idea that understanding grammar is the be all and end all of language learning. I don't think I'd show them a video of someone else teaching present perfect.
I've had success showing them cartoons, believe it or not. Spongebob, Cars, Toy Story etc. I couldn't get them out of the classroom (these were uni students). Cartoons seem to have that general appeal that a movie may not have. One time I showed them, 'The Snowman' (fellow Brits will probably know this one), which has no dialogue then got them to write up the story after seeing it. Their writing was great, with fewer mistakes than usual and they did it happily and in half the time. Beats forcing them to write some convoluted drivel based on something from the coursebook.
There was a school here a while back that has a system based on a soap opera combined with NLP techniques. Went under though. Any takers? |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to show your students videos of some other teacher doing a great job explaining grammar points---let me know maybe we can work something out, depending of course on how much you are willing to pay...
Personally, I'm with EP, I don't think you explicit teaching of grammar gets students over that pre-intermediate hump, what they need is LOTS of comprehensible input and opportunities for authentic output. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
If you want to show your students videos of some other teacher doing a great job explaining grammar points---let me know maybe we can work something out, depending of course on how much you are willing to pay...
Personally, I'm with EP, I don't think you explicit teaching of grammar gets students over that pre-intermediate hump, what they need is LOTS of comprehensible input and opportunities for authentic output. |
The two have to be combined. Also, I think you are ignoring the differences between the learning styles of different students. When I was taking Spanish classes it was was like:
Teacher: Let's watch a movie in the next class
Me: No thanks, let's move on to the subjunctive, it's quick tricky in Spanish and I want to know as much as possible.
I know not all students are the same, so how do we strike a balance? How about a quick 5 minute grammar video made by one of the best teachers in the world and presented in a real-life situation, then let's move on to some real work with practical uses. And not every class. Works for me - take it or leave it. As EP says, anything but the coursebook! |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally, I'm with EP, I don't think you explicit teaching of grammar gets students over that pre-intermediate hump, what they need is LOTS of comprehensible input and opportunities for authentic output. |
How about some examples, then I'll be able to evalute them and add my approval or criticism. I haven't seen too much positive input yet. EP's idea for scripting a cartoon is good, though I think talking about it would be better - I did that with the Simpsons, for an oral exam. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thumbs down, Phil. Way too didactic, wordy, and long for any student that I have at least to make practical use of it. And quite honestly, I don't see this guy's presentation of the past perfect different or better than what I've seen in decent text books. Some books just muddle everything.
I think the topic of how to go about teaching grammar is a worthy one for discussion. Grammar is fundamental to language, but it is embedded. I don't know if dissection and analysis is the best way to get to it. Should we teach grammar head-on? What other ideas do people have? |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
get away from the idea that understanding grammar is the be all and end all of language learning. |
I agree 100%. It seems like there are too many teachers and students who believe that if they can only get all of those grammar rules in their heads they will speak English fluently. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
to reach a high level it's necessary to understand grammar |
I have to disagree with this statement. Yes grammar is important but if one studies ONLY grammar, they will NEVER be able to speak a second language fluently.
Just my 2 cents.  |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| What other ideas do people have? |
Indeed! I've yet to see anyone's explanation of how progress will be acheived over the length of a course. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Professor wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
to reach a high level it's necessary to understand grammar |
I have to disagree with this statement. Yes grammar is important but if one studies ONLY grammar, they will NEVER be able to speak a second language fluently.
Just my 2 cents. |
I never advocated ONLY grammar, but (for example) does anyone here use the subjunctive perfectly in Spanish, having only learnt it through practice? |
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