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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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 Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| kaptaincangaroo wrote: |
| teach in Mexico to make enough money to pay for my BA degree. |
Dude, that will NEVER happen in Mexico or Latin America!! As Prof. Gringo told you, the salaries are VERY low in Latin America and saving is almost impossible unless you have a spouse/girlfriend who has a job as well and/or that spouse/girlfriend has properties used for rent.
OR..you have a SS coming in every month from the States. An EFL income ONLY in Mexico or Latin America will not make it possible for you to save.
Get the bachelor first and look into teaching int he Middle East or Asia. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Professor wrote: |
| kaptaincangaroo wrote: |
| teach in Mexico to make enough money to pay for my BA degree. |
Dude, that will NEVER happen in Mexico or Latin America!! As Prof. Gringo told you, the salaries are VERY low in Latin America and saving is almost impossible unless you have a spouse/girlfriend who has a job as well and/or that spouse/girlfriend has properties used for rent.
OR..you have a SS coming in every month from the States. An EFL income ONLY in Mexico or Latin America will not make it possible for you to save.
Get the bachelor first and look into teaching int he Middle East or Asia. |
All very true. The people that do well in Mexico all seem to either have:
1. Outside income such as a pension, SS check or a trust fund to rely upon.
2. Rich parents (EFL phone home)
3. A Mexican life partner with better than average income, business, rental property and/or connections as well.
4. Significant savings or income from their home country or possibly from a high paying EFL country before coming to Mexico.
5. A combination of the above.
The average EFL job in Mexico pays $8,000 pesos per month, which is the minimum to live on. No way to save on that income.
Some jobs pay as little as $4,000 or $5,000 pesos per month. That is not even enough to live on.
Cost of living is going up all the time in Mexico, but wages have stayed about the same for the last 5 years (or more). |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:44 am Post subject: |
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This thread has gone off topic but Prof's last post should be a sticky for newbies. The economic realities and requirements of staying here long term can't be summed up any better.
On the safety side i have had a few incidents over the years:
DF - 1997 - Robbed in Chapultapec of my mobile phone and small change. My fault, lost track of time and the sun went down without me paying much attention to my surroundings. Lesson learned.
Leon - 2000 - Falsely detained outside antro. Robbed by police of about 800 pesos after they had planted cocaine on me.
Matamoros - 2002 - Pulled over by police 2 minutes after crossing into Mexico. Robbed at gunpoint of close to 1000 USD.
Celaya - 2004 - Falsely arrested by state police and robbed of 500 pesos. Spent 1 night in jail due to being charged with drunk driving. The fact that i had 1 beer and was not driving (i was actually in the BACK seat when my friend was pulled over) didnt seem to matter too much.
I'd say right now it would be prudent to avoid the border areas for sure. Other than that i dont think any one place is more or less safe than any other. I've never really had any issues with the general public but one would be wise to be careful with the police.
On the drug war front, things can change from one month to the next, these are my opinions...stats courtest of REFORMA.COM
All border areas - avoid.
Monterrey - seems to be quieting down since a rough summer. There is too much money/industry/investment there for things not to get better. Nuevo Leon had 330 narco murders between 2006-2009. There have been 600 this year.
DF - roughly the same level of narco murders this year (190) as there were last year, so probably fairly safe compared to other places.
Colima - used to be safe, not anymore. Drug murders up 500% over last year.
Michoacan - wise to steer clear of at the moment.
Guerrero - a mess. Worst state for narco related murders (940) outside the border states.
Tamps. - ditto, 740 murders so far
Zacatecas/Queretaro - safe. Only 20 drug related murders in 2010
SLP - twice as many drug related murders this year as there were in the last 4 years combined.
BCS - safe, only 6 narco murders this year...any jobs in Cabo???
Yucatan - safe, zero narco deaths this year.
If you live in Mexico in the current environment it is probably because you love the place, crime statistics wont make you leave. But make no mistake, this country is one of the most insecure places in the world at the moment. Living in a pueblo or a metropolis doesnt change that. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Professor wrote: |
An EFL income ONLY in Mexico or Latin America will not make it possible for you to save.
Get the bachelor first and look into teaching int he Middle East or Asia. |
While this may be true for some people, it isn�t true for me, and I would venture to say it isn�t true for many people who are ESL teachers in Mexico. I have always saved some money, not a lot at first, but after a while I saved roughly half my income. Of course, it depends on the lifestyle you lead, and I have always tended to be frugal, but I live what most people would consider a middle class lifestyle and still manage to save. |
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FreddyM
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 180
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Prof.Gringo"]
| Professor wrote: |
All very true. The people that do well in Mexico all seem to either have:
1. Outside income such as a pension, SS check or a trust fund to rely upon.
2. Rich parents (EFL phone home)
3. A Mexican life partner with better than average income, business, rental property and/or connections as well.
4. Significant savings or income from their home country or possibly from a high paying EFL country before coming to Mexico.
5. A combination of the above.
The average EFL job in Mexico pays $8,000 pesos per month, which is the minimum to live on. No way to save on that income.
Some jobs pay as little as $4,000 or $5,000 pesos per month. That is not even enough to live on.
Cost of living is going up all the time in Mexico, but wages have stayed about the same for the last 5 years (or more). |
I meet none of those conditions and yet have managed to save up enough to put a significant down payment on an apartment (nearly half its price), and am making plans to pay it off in a third of the time of the Infonavit loan. While Im sure that that probably couldnt be done on an income less than $10,000, it is possible to find jobs that pay significantly more than that, even without much experience or any teaching credentials. Maybe the people that can't manage to save up have really shitty paying jobs and don't look for something better, or spend extravagantly, or both. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| "safety in rural and urban areas" is the title and topic of this thread. Have we not had enough coverage of income/savings and such on other threads? |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
| This thread has gone off topic but Prof's last post should be a sticky for newbies. The economic realities and requirements of staying here long term can't be summed up any better. |
Thanks  |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
| "safety in rural and urban areas" is the title and topic of this thread. Have we not had enough coverage of income/savings and such on other threads? |
As for crime and violence, Mexico is one of the worst places in the world right now. Don't get me wrong, Mexico has never won any awards for safety and security, but the current narco-insurgente death toll stands at well over 30,000 for the past four years.
I have reasons why I stay (and trust me, folks, if not for those reasons I would have been long gone) as do others. But for some to accuse every realistic assessment of Mexico as being Mexico bashing is naive at best and is negligent or possibly even worse. If those of us that have been here for years, often married to Mexican nationals truly hated Mexico and it's people we would be back on the US side running around with the Minutemen... 
If folks are scared off from coming to Mexico (any rational person should be), and that causes a dent in tourism and the supply of EFL backpackers, fine with me. Mexico is neither stable nor safe at this time. I have no hidden interests such as running an English school or TEFL program or recruiting newbies to teach business classes.
I have also been robbed by the corrupt cops and been the victim of police harassment. But the US embassy isn't going out of it's way to help US citizens (like the Mexican consulates and embassy in the US always do, even when an illegal Mexican national is accused of murder or rape in the US and still afforded dual-process and a Spanish speaking attorney, all at US tax-payer expense), if arrested (falsely or for reason, makes not a bit of real difference), you can expect a nightmare. No special group such as MALDEF or NCLR is going to go to your defense as a foreigner in Mexico.
Always use common sense in Mexico, be aware of who is with and around you at all times. Never trust the police. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| FreddyM wrote: |
I meet none of those conditions and yet have managed to save up enough to put a significant down payment on an apartment |
Yes and you teach KIDS,something most on this forum don't want to do because of the way they are in the schools here in the DF. Plus, how long have you been working in DF?
Wages are low here. Go to Asia newbies. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| for some to accuse every realistic assessment of Mexico as being Mexico bashing is naive at best and is negligent or possibly even worse. |
BOOM! Thank you for that Prof. Gringo. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Prof.Gringo"]
| the peanut gallery wrote: |
As for crime and violence, Mexico is one of the worst places in the world right now. Don't get me wrong, Mexico has never won any awards for safety and security,
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I don�t think you can paint a whole country, or all police, with this wide brush. While I agree with you that urban areas can be unsafe, that is true of any large city. But small towns in most parts of Mexico are pretty crime free, and I don�t see how you can compare a town of 15,000 to Mexico City or Guadalajara, for example. Also, all police are not the same, and to continue to say all police are corrupt doesn�t help anyway. I have asked police for help on a number of occasions and was given the help I requested. I have two neighbors who are police, and and that is one of their biggest frustrations - the assumption that they are corrupt. One is very young, and idealistic, so he could change. The other is a long time cop, and if he is taking bribes his lifestyle sure doesn�t reflect that. So yeah, I think saying �X�is true about a whole country, or a whole police force, is bashing. Is it not true, and not balanced. I agree that this probably isn�t a good time to come to Mexico and I have somewhat curtailed my activities so that I am not out much after dark. But where I live I haven�t seen many changes in the crime rate, nor have I seen a rise in crimes committed against people I know. Your mileage may vary. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| FreddyM wrote: |
| Maybe the people that can't manage to save up have really shitty paying jobs and don't look for something better, or spend extravagantly, or both. |
Whatever Feddy. Always blame the people, unless they're from HERE then it's NOT there fault. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| TeresaLopez wrote: |
| Professor wrote: |
An EFL income ONLY in Mexico or Latin America will not make it possible for you to save.
Get the bachelor first and look into teaching int he Middle East or Asia. |
While this may be true for some people, it isn�t true for me |
Yea,but you're not telling the guy who wants to come here and save for his bachelor your whole story Teresa. Tell him why it's REALLY possible for you to save here.
You left out the part about having a spouse who has a job and properties that could be used for renting or some other type of business. The kangeroo guy doesn't seem to know anyone in Mexico so it's safe to say he doesn't have a spouse with an income and he probably doesn't know anyone who has property that can be used for rent...a second income.
I'm just saying, let's tell the whole story when trying to convince newbies that they can save here. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="TeresaLopez"]
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| the peanut gallery wrote: |
As for crime and violence, Mexico is one of the worst places in the world right now. Don't get me wrong, Mexico has never won any awards for safety and security,
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I don�t think you can paint a whole country, or all police, with this wide brush. While I agree with you that urban areas can be unsafe, that is true of any large city. But small towns in most parts of Mexico are pretty crime free, and I don�t see how you can compare a town of 15,000 to Mexico City or Guadalajara, for example. Also, all police are not the same, and to continue to say all police are corrupt doesn�t help anyway. I have asked police for help on a number of occasions and was given the help I requested. I have two neighbors who are police, and and that is one of their biggest frustrations - the assumption that they are corrupt. One is very young, and idealistic, so he could change. The other is a long time cop, and if he is taking bribes his lifestyle sure doesn�t reflect that. So yeah, I think saying �X�is true about a whole country, or a whole police force, is bashing. Is it not true, and not balanced. I agree that this probably isn�t a good time to come to Mexico and I have somewhat curtailed my activities so that I am not out much after dark. But where I live I haven�t seen many changes in the crime rate, nor have I seen a rise in crimes committed against people I know. Your mileage may vary. |
Yeah and there are small towns where the narcoinsurgentes ride in, take over the whole place and do whatever they want. You won't see that in any major Mexican city, but there are plenty of small towns where either the entire police force is on the take of a drug cartel or corrupted.
I also think that the US idea of police corruption and what is a "bad" cop is very different from the Mexican idea. In the US if a cop takes a bribe, he/she is a BAD cop. Simple as that. Black and white. Not so in Mexico. A Mexican cop can take bribes all day long, but still be seen as doing his/her "job".
I have a ton of stories about Mexican police which range from the heroic to the comical to the downright disgusting.
As for a foreigner new to Mexico, my advice does NOT change. Avoid the police. Hard to tell when you're a newbie which cops are corrupt, which are truly evil, and those that actually try to do a very difficult job for very little pay. If you aren't sure, best to err on the side of caution.
How does the average Mexican currently view the police? Do the police even do their collective jobs?
Read this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101213/wl_afp/mexicocrimekidnap |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Professor wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| for some to accuse every realistic assessment of Mexico as being Mexico bashing is naive at best and is negligent or possibly even worse. |
BOOM! Thank you for that Prof. Gringo. |
Your VERY welcome  |
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