Job Discussion Forums

[killthebuddha]

[johnslat]

Dear ktb,

We agree with you.


Regards,
John(s)

[killthebuddha]

Dear johnslat,

No doubt you were correct about the misplaced modifiers. I would have responded more directly, and less frivolously, to the OP, but where to start? Why not go to the source?


Against American education:

http://johntaylorgatto.com/

A historical account of (the decline of) American education (free download of the bestselling book):

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

A nifty resource for educators:

http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/D36749F1-3A40-09FA-957F-41294B88CB70/

On the lost tools of learning (and a possible remedy?):

http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html

On the philosophy of liberal education (a very resourceful link, alphabetized by author):

http://www.ditext.com/libed/libed.html



Like I said, where to start?

--ktb

[Linguist]

KTB (sounds like KGB ),

Thanks for the links. Even though this is my first time hearing about John Taylor Gatto, a lot of what he says make sense (I haven't read the books yet but will certainly do so). A lot of teachers do not know why/what they are teaching and students do not know why/what they are being taught at school.

Ask any backpacker TEFLER about which teaching methodology he is using in class, and he will spew out the 'communicative approach'. In reality, he does not have a clue what it's all about and whether this methodology is suitable for his students.

[johnslat]

Dear Linguist,

Gatto is THE MAN!!

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/hp/frames.htm

Regards,
John

[Linguist]

[killthebuddha]

There's The Rub,

How many teachers, in our case, are improving their own English through a better understanding of it? In any other field you must have a strong foundation in that field to teach it, or you used to. Even for certification in the U.S., teachers are getting education degrees rather than degrees in a specific field, the result of which is that they come away with about half the number of hours in their subject than they used to. There was a recent news report about the poor quality of newly certified teachers in the state of Illinois. These programs that the teachers came out of were ill-defined and weak in specific subject matter development. All the "methods" and "theories" classes in the world won't help you to teach what you do not know. Students need to be challenged; condescending to them through our own poor expectations and limitations is a recipe for disaster.

Consider the following (this site is a great resource, BTW):

http://www.worldmapper.org/index.html

The world according to Education:

http://www.worldmapper.org/textindex/text_education.html

According to secondary education enrollment:

http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=200

According to tertiary education enrollment:

http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=203

According to science research:

http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=205



Draw your own conclusions.

--ktb

[Linguist]

The CELTA and other quick TEFL certificates that get backpackers 'certified' to teach are all contributing to this state of affairs: bastardisation of TEFL. It's no more a profession, it has become a ...

[johnslat]

Dear Linguist,

"It's no more a profession, it has become a ...

Well, if it's not a PROfession, has it become a CONfession?

Seriously though, what others think about the EFL/ESL field is of no significance to me. I know that I do a professional job and that's all that matters to me (and I've known many others who have always been professional, too.)

Regards,
John

[scot47]

Is what Gatto has to say so different from what Illich told us all those years ago ?

[killthebuddha]

Linguist,

You were saying, "...it has become a..."

I would say "it" (by which you meant the TEFL field) has become a huge industry, and various certifications have simply become a convenient/default screening mechanism for the schools and government regulating bodies. But it's just as true of America's certification programs for teachers.

If you look at the percentages shown by the worldmapper.org links I posted above, there's an apparent discrepancy. The percentage of participating students in secondary education in the U.S. is abysmal by world standards. There is a notable rise in the percentage of those participating in tertiary education. When you get to scientific research, the U.S. absolutely explodes. Either the great (and it would have to be exponentially great) majority of U.S. high school grads also attend university, or these tertiary participators and scientific researchers (the numbers here include published papers) are coming from overseas. And of course, they are. (Just look at China for these same categories and you'll see the inverse law in play.) Why? How? Money. The business of America is business, and "education" is big business almost anywhere you go.

Take johnslat's advice and worry not. (Who's Illich? I must know. Hello Google.)

--ktb

[johnslat]

Dear scot47,

They both had very similar views - Illich, I'd say, is more intellectual and theoretical, a priest and an administrator. Gatto, I think, is more practical, and down-to-earth, a guy who spent thirty years in the classroom.

Regards,
John

[killthebuddha]

scot47,

I've always enjoyed your posts--you're one of a handful of regulars here that I always make certain to read--but I'm especially grateful for your mention of Illich. Where have I been? It's like stumbling upon Buckminster Fuller for the first time, or Pearl Jam--Touring Band 2000. Thanks.

--ktb

[Bebsi]

Concerning the concern concerning 'concerning' as an adjective, and the subsequent concern expressed concerning the concern concerning 'concerning', I would like to express my concern concerning the concern concerning the concern whether 'concerning' is an adjective or not. It is a matter of serious concern that such concern be expressed over the whole issue of concern in the first place. As far as I am concerned, anyway.

Most disconcerting!

[bulgogiboy]