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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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 Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
"...If I were a student, I would want a teacher who was more interested in my learning than he was in telling me how "professional he was..."
Are professional teachers interested in telling their students how professional they are? Didnt know that was the case. So to be a true professional one must also be vain? Wow, the qualification bar keeps rising while the pay stays frozen. |
I don't know. I guess I just figure if someone takes every available opportunity to adverstise that fact on Dave's, they must do so in their regular working life. I think it is a logical conclusion to come to.
BTW; whose pay stays frozen? Is that a personal situation or a general observation? |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:31 am Post subject: |
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"...a good teacher, IMHO, has more to do with attitude than with how much "paper" I can wave in your face....."
Why do other careers require "paper" but ESL teachers no? Would you go to a doctor, dentist, or take your dog to a veterinarian with a good attitude but no formal qualifications? Why are people in this sector allowed back door entry into professionalism? Its not an ego trip, its called having an expectation of professional standards across the industry. |
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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
"...a good teacher, IMHO, has more to do with attitude than with how much "paper" I can wave in your face....."
Why do other careers require "paper" but ESL teachers no? Would you go to a doctor, dentist, or take your dog to a veterinarian with a good attitude but no formal qualifications? Why are people in this sector allowed back door entry into professionalism? Its not an ego trip, its called having an expectation of professional standards across the industry. |
You are seriously comparing teaching ESL to being a doctor? |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| But yet we have already gone over the fact that EFL teachers need a CELTA / TEFL certificate. This is paper. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:35 am Post subject: |
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"....BTW; whose pay stays frozen? Is that a personal situation or a general observation?...."
Greg posted an article on the EFL YEAR END BONUS thread. According to him thats how things are going, unfortunately. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:37 am Post subject: |
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"You are seriously comparing teaching ESL to being a doctor?"
Are you seriously equating a telf certificate and a good attitute to a good language instructor?
Greg,
We have gone over it. You value those certificates however you like. |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| According to him thats how things are going, unfortunately. |
Excuse me... I was just posting a news report that I thought may be interesting. It is NOT my opinion at all.
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| Greg, We have gone over it. You value those certificates however you like. |
Yet peanut, you say in your post;
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| Why do other careers require "paper" but ESL teachers no? |
You're the one going over and over the same point. I'm just trying to highlight your constant inconsistancies. You say that EFL teachers don't require 'paper' but we have been talking about CELTA / TRINITY / TEFL certificates... if employers didn't require paper, why would people take the courses??
I'm not commenting on the value of the 'paper' - thats for recruiters to decide- but people are certifying. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps not your opinion, but you posted it because it suited your argument.
"I'm just trying to highlight your constant inconsistancies."
Stand up guy, thanks! Now could you do me a favour and work on your own? |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| I don�t think there is a one size fits all qualification that makes someone a professional, I think it is an attitude one has, that they want to do a good job, that they want to help their students learn, that they do that extra kilometer to help those that are falling between the cracks. I am in a position to hire teachers, and I have hired some with a TESOL certificate, some with a background in education, some with no formal training, but with some experience and a knack for teaching, as demonstrated by the sample lesson presentation I ask people to do at the interview. And all of these people have turned out to be decent teachers. I do shy away from people who obviously have no training or experience and just see teaching English as a way to stay in Mexico for a few months. And their attitude is often off too. And as a person who is self taught in many skills, I think there is a place for that even in ESL teaching. I don�t have a CELTA, but for me, personally, an intense month long program would not be the way to go, I need more time to absorb what I am learning. I have been looking at some of the Teacher Diploma classes offered here in Mexico, and some of them look pretty good. (And some look like total crap), There are a few that are taught in English, part time, so you have time to digest what you are doing. I might actually take one just for the refresher. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Sounds good Teresa! As Guy said, its an ongoing process isnt it. |
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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
"You are seriously comparing teaching ESL to being a doctor?"
Are you seriously equating a telf certificate and a good attitute to a good language instructor?
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Impossible to compare, seeing as a TEFL certificate plus a good attitude may very likely lead to a good language instructor. Just as years of schooling and an attitude of entitlement and resentment would make for a crappy one.
I probably am less "qualified" than you (in your mind, anyway), yet could probably teach circles around you. How could we judge such a competition? Success stories, perhaps? How much we earn? How many lives we have touched? When you figure that out, you have your answer as to what makes a good teacher. |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:54 am Post subject: |
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Support what arguement? I just don't understand whats being said here.
I simply posted the article because I thought it would be of interest.
This constant attacking and failure to answer constructive questions and simply shoot down any point of view other than your own is tiring. Really tiring.
You show me an inconstitancy in my posts and I'll either clarify my point or apologise for any mistake.
The inconsistency you continually refer to is 32 pesos an hour paid at my school- are you man enough to admit you got this wrong? (I doubt it) |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:56 am Post subject: |
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"I probably am less "qualified" than you (in your mind, anyway), yet could probably teach circles around you"
Please address the message, not the messenger. You just got very personal Playa. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
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Would you go to a doctor, dentist, or take your dog to a veterinarian with a good attitude but no formal qualifications?
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No, but I go to an herbalist with little formal training that I have complete faith in. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:01 am Post subject: |
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".... shoot down any point of view other than your own is tiring. Really tiring."
I feel the same about your posts....shall we simply not engage in any future conversations or debates? |
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