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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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 Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but I don't think I'm all that great at small talk (a huge pitfall for a language teacher!). I get it done, but often lack the patience to draw more out of the conversation if the other person- the student- is slow to bring up topics. To have to sit down from 8am-9:30pm and start talking just isn't a natural way to be exposed to a language. There are so many issues that arise. What if the person is tired? What if he doesn't feel like talking? What if he wants to talk about something completely unrelated? In life and over the course of the day, we have the freedom in Mexico to practice our Spanish in virtually any situation and at any time. |
I can tell you, from experimenting in the same vain, that 1 hour of small talk is more productive that 5 hours of coursebook drivel. I think it's because when you talk naturally you get emotionally involved in what you're saying as oppose to the dry irrelevant stuff in most coursebooks. It provokes no emotional response and therefore little or no retention. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
I can tell you, from experimenting in the same vain, that 1 hour of small talk is more productive that 5 hours of coursebook drivel. I think it's because when you talk naturally you get emotionally involved in what you're saying as oppose to the dry irrelevant stuff in most coursebooks. It provokes no emotional response and therefore little or no retention. |
Absolutely! I have one small class of three women and we meet once every month or so for breakfast and just talk. Since we are close in age and have many common interests, small talk is easy. I have noticed in the 6 months I have been teaching them that their sentence structurs have begun to sound more natural and less bookish. One of my teachers did a class where he showed commercials and then they talked about them, if they were entertaining, why or why not, if they believe the commercial, if they would buy the product, just all kinds of things. It was a great class, and I plan to do the same thing with some of my groups. Games have been touched on before, and I think they can be a great tool for making students think in English. I think even role playing can be fun and useful at lower levels, especially if you make it fun, while still practicing needed structures. For example, in a restaurant have the student call over a waiter (another student) to complain about finding a mouse in her soup, or some other ridiculous situation. The way I teach is in roughly three stages - at the beginning some grammar and structure and lots of vocabulary. Then asking questions with vocabulary learned, sentence structure, some lower level games. As other have mentioned, I don�t teach grammar in a clinical way, but more a natural way, such as when and how a structure is used. And I give lots of examples. I also quite like the Murphy grammar books because they do give lots of examples, and the grammar explanations are how to than why to. At about interemediate level I start to get heavier on conversation, try to mix in some other accents, add more games, but it�s still just general conversation. I listen to the weak points of each student and make it a point to focus somewhat on those things, either with a brief review of common mistakes or sometimes I will ask a student to come early or stay late to go over a few things. At the more advanced levels I tend to look for more detailed things, both for complexity of language and richer vocabulary. I have one student who happens to be a Jethro Tull fan, as am I, and we ended up spending three weeks reading and discussing a scholarly paper on the meaning of the song �Thick As A Brick�. We had some very interesting conversations during that period of time, and he talked about those classes for a couple of months afterwards. Get them talking! I think that is the most important thing, and in a natural way. I think there is a place for books, and I do use them, but they are not the bulk of my classes even at more basic levels. Right now, I am also teaching a very basic Spanish class to a young woman. Her most pressing needs are being able to shop for food, so we started off with money, numbers, how to ask for things, how to make change, and lots and lots of food vocabulary. We�ve been on field trips to the market near her house, as well as many shops, where we practice what she�s going to buy but then she does all the talking. We took the time to get to know some of the people in the market and they are more than happy to help her, whether it is by repeating things, talking slowly, or even giving and inpromptu vocabulary lesson. As someone pointed out, that�s easy to do here, but I think we can at least try to simulate some kinds of settings where conversation can occur naturally. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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How refreshing to have some serious debate on these forums - it took some time but we are getting there! Let's make it our New Year resolution not to feed the trolls - they will soon get tired!
Thank you for all your contribtuions. I think something that comes out of this debate is that we have to be attentive and pick up on anything that is casually mentioned in class to get the interest of the students. If coupled with a visible structure to the course, I think we can get the balance right. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Phil, and happy holidays to you and your family!
Informative debate about what happens inside the classroom is extremely important. I think this board is full of great teachers with fantastic ideas.
Could it also be a resolution to try for similar informative debate on matters on other side of the classroom door as well? The business and financial structure of the sector are just as important but seem a bit neglected. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
If coupled with a visible structure to the course, I think we can get the balance right. |
I agree but realize this is probably my weakest point, mostly due to lack of equipment in many locations. What kinds of things do you suggest? I like the idea of watching a movie in segments and then discussing it, not just the facts of the movie but, depending on the movie, it could lead to all kinds of interesting offshoots? What would be some good movies to show to intermediate and up students? I just saw �The Pursuit of Happyness�and think that would be a good one, easy to understand, fairly simple vocabulary, interesting and could lead to loads of different discussions. I find a lot of my students are very interested in American culture, though a lot of what they think they know came from sit-coms, so you could even use visual media to dispel stereotypes. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Ooops, by "visible structure" I meant that the students could see that there is a structure to the course, even though the conversation may take different directions according to their interests! |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
| Ooops, by "visible structure" I meant that the students could see that there is a structure to the course, even though the conversation may take different directions according to their interests! |
Ah, right, I see what you mean, I think this is important too, at least for me, I think some of my students have a mental checklist of things they think need to be done so they can advance. How do you propose doing this? Maybe it could be something as simple as drawing up a list of things to be accomplished each month, for example, learn and use travel vocabulary, or discuss content and opinions about movies, articles, etc., talk about events in the past, talk about future events, etc, then every so often have a review day to see if there are any questions about what you have covered so far. Or did you have something different in mind? I think with loose structure like that you have two advantages, one you can dedicate more than one class to an item, if needed, and, two, you have flexibility to use whatever material you want, or make last minute changes if needed. For example, I have a lot of students in a travel agency, and when Mexicana first started having problems it gave us lots of things to talk about, I used it to teach comparatives, past actions, future actions and modals, all without every really bringing grammar into the picture. |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| TeresaLopez wrote: |
| For example, I have a lot of students in a travel agency, and when Mexicana first started having problems it gave us lots of things to talk about, I used it to teach comparatives, past actions, future actions and modals, all without every really bringing grammar into the picture. |
If you were teaching comparatives, past actions, etc., then you were bringing grammar into the picture, even if you didn't say to your students, "Today we'll be focusing on grammar points A and B." |
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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| TeresaLopez wrote: |
| Phil_K wrote: |
| Ooops, by "visible structure" I meant that the students could see that there is a structure to the course, even though the conversation may take different directions according to their interests! |
Ah, right, I see what you mean, I think this is important too, at least for me, I think some of my students have a mental checklist of things they think need to be done so they can advance. How do you propose doing this? Maybe it could be something as simple as drawing up a list of things to be accomplished each month, for example, learn and use travel vocabulary, or discuss content and opinions about movies, articles, etc., talk about events in the past, talk about future events, etc, then every so often have a review day to see if there are any questions about what you have covered so far. |
I think involving your student(s) in developing his own learning portfolio is a wonderful idea. Even in language institutes with structured programs, this is something that every teacher should attempt to do. The first question any teacher should ask a student is "why?" Why is the student studying English? What is his ultimate goal and how does he plan on using the language? It differs from student to student and should be taken into account for each and every one of them. At least, to the best of the teacher's ability and within time constraints. |
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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| TeresaLopez wrote: |
| For example, I have a lot of students in a travel agency, and when Mexicana first started having problems it gave us lots of things to talk about, I used it to teach comparatives, past actions, future actions and modals, all without every really bringing grammar into the picture. |
If you were teaching comparatives, past actions, etc., then you were bringing grammar into the picture, even if you didn't say to your students, "Today we'll be focusing on grammar points A and B." |
Grammar is inherent in any language acquisition. As you say, you may not call attention to it but it is still there. Even as native speakers, we acquired the language by taking what we heard and, then, using our critical thinking skills to apply grammar rules to what we produced. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Isla Guapa wrote: |
If you were teaching comparatives, past actions, etc., then you were bringing grammar into the picture, even if you didn't say to your students, "Today we'll be focusing on grammar points A and B." |
Right, I guess I would tend to say I do grammar rather than teach it. For example, I�ll start off describing things, then comparing things, and just model how to do it with brief explanations. I don�t usually use formal grammar terms, but I do think that grammar needs to be taught, it just doesn�t have to be boring textbook grammar. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| TeresaLopez wrote: |
| Right, I guess I would tend to say I do grammar rather than teach it. |
That is very, very nicely said. You've articulated something that I feel very strongly about.
Great movement in this conversation and very productive. |
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