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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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 Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:52 am Post subject: ESL Job Availability |
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On November 15, 2009:
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I think the market is flooding all over the place due to the recession. But it won't last, once people realise that TEFLing isn't super easy, they'll go back to their old jobs. . or looking for jobs. |
Anyone care to weigh in on this one? How does the job market look out there? Where are there jobs to be had? |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:48 am Post subject: Re: ESL Job Availability |
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| Steinmann wrote: |
On November 15, 2009:
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I think the market is flooding all over the place due to the recession. But it won't last, once people realise that TEFLing isn't super easy, they'll go back to their old jobs. . or looking for jobs. |
Anyone care to weigh in on this one? How does the job market look out there? Where are there jobs to be had? |
There are "globally" more jobs than there are applicants.
ESL will continue to be a growth industry.
In SOME (of the better paying or more westernized) markets, notably the EU, Japan and Korea the market is tighter (lots of jobs but also lots of applicants).
In other places where the (gross) pay isn't quite as good there are still lots of jobs.
It is also a point to note that for QUALIFIED teachers (degree, + experience and/or teachers licenses) there are lots of decent paying jobs all around the planet.
Another point to note is that even in places where the initial gross salary is not as good that because of the differences in the cost of living the net salary (savings) at the end of the month can be as good as some of the better paying countries.
For example:
a) a job paying 8000RMB (US$1200)+ housing, airfare, board and benefits in China will allow you to save as much as or more than a job paying 2.2 million won (US$2000) in Korea.
b) The same can be said for a job in Thailand paying 45k-50k THB (US$1500-1600) with monthly savings on the order of US$1000 per month easily attainable.
Both are examples of jobs that are not hard to find if you have some qualifications to bring to the table.
As to being a growth industry - even in the depths of the US recession most of Asia hardly even blinked and ESL GREW in almost every country (with the exception of Japan). Even Korea added 5000 new jobs in ESL (from 25,000 to 30,000 work visas issued in 2009 )while the US economy was crashing down around everyone's ears.
China is predicting a demand for more than a 1/2 MILLION new ESL teachers over the next decade. Korea supports more than 30 thousand ESL teachers annually, 15-20,000 in Japan, 10,000 LEGAL ESL teachers in Thailand (with another estimated 20,000 working illegally), 10,000 more in Vietnam, Cambodia and Indonesia.
That means that in order to keep the jobs filled there needs to be about 50,000 NEW ESL teachers recruited and willing to move abroad EVERY YEAR in addition to those already abroad and willing to stay at work.
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Where are the jobs?
Um... everywhere. What are your qualifications, and where are you from? Those factors will narrow things down. If you are new to the field and/or minimally qualified, you obviously shouldn't expect the good jobs to be available to you, but if you've got a pulse and half a brain, there is a job out there for you somewhere.
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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| denise wrote: |
Where are the jobs?
Um... everywhere. What are your qualifications, and where are you from? Those factors will narrow things down. If you are new to the field and/or minimally qualified, you obviously shouldn't expect the good jobs to be available to you, but if you've got a pulse and half a brain, there is a job out there for you somewhere.
d |
A fair question.
I'm from and in the United States.
Degrees (from different universities):
B.A. English (2005)
B.S. Secondary English Education (2009)
US state certified:
6-12 English Language Arts
6-8 Mathematics
K-12 ESOL
I'm currently teaching high school English in a US public school system.
I have no other TEFL/TESOL/ESL/ESOL certification other than the one mentioned above.
I have little experience specifically oriented toward teaching ESL. The above cert was an add-on, but it's a genuine state certification. Looking forward to getting such experience. 
Think I have a remote shot at a job somewhere in the world? Somewhere I don't have to worry about checking the perimeter tripwires before I retire for the evening would be good. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: |
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There are plenty of jobs out there. It's just that GOOD jobs are hard to find. Espeically if yo uhave little quals, experience, or connections.
With your quals, try to get a job at an intl school.
Last edited by naturegirl321 on Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:29 am Post subject: Re: ESL Job Availability |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| a) a job paying 8000RMB (US$1200)+ housing, airfare, board and benefits in China will allow you to save as much as or more than a job paying 2.2 million won (US$2000) in Korea. |
I don't know about that. Starting salary is $800 difference. Having worked in both countries I'd have to disagree. You're getting free housing in both.
So for the first, let's say you spend $300. You're left with $900
The second, you spend $1000, you're left with $1000.
Plus, you're forgetting that China doesn't give severance pay OR pension. That alone can put another $3000 in your pocket. At least. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Steinmann wrote: |
| denise wrote: |
Where are the jobs?
Um... everywhere. What are your qualifications, and where are you from? Those factors will narrow things down. If you are new to the field and/or minimally qualified, you obviously shouldn't expect the good jobs to be available to you, but if you've got a pulse and half a brain, there is a job out there for you somewhere.
d |
A fair question.
I'm from and in the United States.
Degrees (from different universities):
B.A. English (2005)
B.S. Secondary English Education (2009)
US state certified:
6-12 English Language Arts
6-8 Mathematics
K-12 ESOL
I'm currently teaching high school English in a US public school system.
I have no other TEFL/TESOL/ESL/ESOL certification other than the one mentioned above.
I have little experience specifically oriented toward teaching ESL. The above cert was an add-on, but it's a genuine state certification. Looking forward to getting such experience.
Think I have a remote shot at a job somewhere in the world? Somewhere I don't have to worry about checking the perimeter tripwires before I retire for the evening would be good. |
With those qualifications you could literally waltz into a position anywhere outside Europe (where as an American you would be unlikely to obtain a work visa regardless of your qualifications) or North America (where there is currently a glut of teachers).
=Look at public school positions in Taiwan (pay range on the order of 80kTWD plus benefits per month),
=a NET position in Hong Kong (similar pay/benefits package) or an =international/IB school (as a homeroom/subject teacher) just about anywhere else.
=You should be able to also find positions in the 8-15k RMB range in China.
Drive right on by the usual entry level ESL positions unless that is what you really want to do.
About the only places you need to worry about the trip wire are places you find the US military playing their games (Middle East and west/central Asia).
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artemisia
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:05 am Post subject: |
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As you're secondary school qualified and at least have some current experience, I think you have a reasonable shot at a place where you DON'T need to worry about the perimeter trip wire! I'd suggest you look under the websites of Teach Away (Canadian based, I think) and teachanywhere (similar). They have TEFL jobs and also other school subjects.
If you're going to pursue a TEFL job, getting a reputable TEFL certificate would be within your best interests. It will generally leave you with more options in the first place and wherever you end up. I also suggest when you come up with employer names and jobs that you do a 'search' here on the employer and also look under the relevant country on this site. In some countries, their whole schooling system is undergoing massive changes and could therefore be chaotic places to work for a while.
It's likely someone will have been there and done that before you so best to find out what information is around before you take the plunge. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: Re: ESL Job Availability |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| China is predicting a demand for more than a 1/2 MILLION new ESL teachers over the next decade. Korea supports more than 30 thousand ESL teachers annually, 15-20,000 in Japan, 10,000 LEGAL ESL teachers in Thailand (with another estimated 20,000 working illegally), 10,000 more in Vietnam, Cambodia and Indonesia. |
Where are you getting these figures? |
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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| Steinmann wrote: |
| denise wrote: |
Where are the jobs?
Um... everywhere. What are your qualifications, and where are you from? Those factors will narrow things down. If you are new to the field and/or minimally qualified, you obviously shouldn't expect the good jobs to be available to you, but if you've got a pulse and half a brain, there is a job out there for you somewhere.
d |
A fair question.
I'm from and in the United States.
Degrees (from different universities):
B.A. English (2005)
B.S. Secondary English Education (2009)
US state certified:
6-12 English Language Arts
6-8 Mathematics
K-12 ESOL
I'm currently teaching high school English in a US public school system.
I have no other TEFL/TESOL/ESL/ESOL certification other than the one mentioned above.
I have little experience specifically oriented toward teaching ESL. The above cert was an add-on, but it's a genuine state certification. Looking forward to getting such experience.
Think I have a remote shot at a job somewhere in the world? Somewhere I don't have to worry about checking the perimeter tripwires before I retire for the evening would be good. |
With those qualifications you could literally waltz into a position anywhere outside Europe (where as an American you would be unlikely to obtain a work visa regardless of your qualifications) or North America (where there is currently a glut of teachers). |
Sounds good. I'm not interested in Europe, actually, and I'm currently one of those North American teachers. I'm situated just now in the Big Freeze, though, and looking for a change in the not-too-distant future. (Currently -22� out there. Freezin' my rocks off, man!)
| tttompatz wrote: |
=Look at public school positions in Taiwan (pay range on the order of 80kTWD plus benefits per month),
=a NET position in Hong Kong (similar pay/benefits package) or an =international/IB school (as a homeroom/subject teacher) just about anywhere else.
=You should be able to also find positions in the 8-15k RMB range in China.
Drive right on by the usual entry level ESL positions unless that is what you really want to do. |
I hadn't considered either Taiwan or Hong Kong. Interesting. China sounds cool, but I've been told to expect around 4500 kuai or so as a newbie, unless I turn up in Beijing or Shanghai. Your info sounds better to me.
| tttompatz wrote: |
| About the only places you need to worry about the trip wire are places you find the US military playing their games (Middle East and west/central Asia). |
Stay away from jobs in Kabul, Islamabad, and anywhere in Africa. Got it. I played those military games for a while, but my party was in Bosnia. Don't need a repeat.
So you predict that the worldwide ESL scene will generally continue on its merry way, then? |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:29 am Post subject: Re: ESL Job Availability |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| tttompatz wrote: |
| China is predicting a demand for more than a 1/2 MILLION new ESL teachers over the next decade. Korea supports more than 30 thousand ESL teachers annually, 15-20,000 in Japan, 10,000 LEGAL ESL teachers in Thailand (with another estimated 20,000 working illegally), 10,000 more in Vietnam, Cambodia and Indonesia. |
Where are you getting these figures? |
Korea - immigration service (published annually)
Thailand - MOE and TCT
China - SAFEA current and projected estimates
Japan - numbers from the Japanese embassy and were based on visas issued for the purpose of teaching (including JET).
Vietnam, Cambodia and Indonesia were from other (foreign) government sources and NGOs (like CIDA) who provide (some) funding and staffing and would best be described as estimates rather than an actual, exact number.
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'll echo the person/people who suggested looking into international schools. With your background, you are eligible--if you've been teaching for 2 years.
Generally, the good jobs are either in international schools or in universities. In the former, you could go for either English or math. I've heard/read that being qualified in math is a big plus. In universities... well, you could find jobs in some countries (China?), but MAs are required/requested for the better positions.
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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| denise wrote: |
I'll echo the person/people who suggested looking into international schools. With your background, you are eligible--if you've been teaching for 2 years.
Generally, the good jobs are either in international schools or in universities. In the former, you could go for either English or math. I've heard/read that being qualified in math is a big plus. In universities... well, you could find jobs in some countries (China?), but MAs are required/requested for the better positions.
d |
Thanks, denise, and thank you all. I could approach this thing from a math angle, but it's ESL I really want to get into. Is there such a thing as doing both at the same time? |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Steinmann wrote: |
| denise wrote: |
I'll echo the person/people who suggested looking into international schools. With your background, you are eligible--if you've been teaching for 2 years.
Generally, the good jobs are either in international schools or in universities. In the former, you could go for either English or math. I've heard/read that being qualified in math is a big plus. In universities... well, you could find jobs in some countries (China?), but MAs are required/requested for the better positions.
d |
Thanks, denise, and thank you all. I could approach this thing from a math angle, but it's ESL I really want to get into. Is there such a thing as doing both at the same time? |
Just be aware that as a qualified (math/science) subject teacher you have the potential to make just about double what an ESL teacher will make and still be home for dinner.
It is possible to do both but get yourself hired as the subject teacher and not the ESL teacher.
AND yes, as long as English is the lingua franca of the planet ESL will not be slowing down any time soon.
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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| Steinmann wrote: |
| denise wrote: |
I'll echo the person/people who suggested looking into international schools. With your background, you are eligible--if you've been teaching for 2 years.
Generally, the good jobs are either in international schools or in universities. In the former, you could go for either English or math. I've heard/read that being qualified in math is a big plus. In universities... well, you could find jobs in some countries (China?), but MAs are required/requested for the better positions.
d |
Thanks, denise, and thank you all. I could approach this thing from a math angle, but it's ESL I really want to get into. Is there such a thing as doing both at the same time? |
Just be aware that as a qualified (math/science) subject teacher you have the potential to make just about double what an ESL teacher will make and still be home for dinner.
It is possible to do both but get yourself hired as the subject teacher and not the ESL teacher.
AND yes, as long as English is the lingua franca of the planet ESL will not be slowing down any time soon. |
I see. Math teachers make more. I guess it's that way all over. Since my school district here pays for any additional certification tests we'd care to take, I suppose I should go on ahead and take the test for secondary math. Only makes sense. Science is out, though. I can't tell a schwann cell from a schwarzkopf.
ESL is rocking strong pretty much worldwide. That's what I want to hear. That brings me to another set of questions.
I read how hiring managers in some locales are pretty specifically targeting younger teachers for employment, and in others they just don't care or even prefer a more mature applicant. I can't seem to nail down a list of different countries and their attitudes on this issue. While I'm not ready for the box just yet, I'm no youngster (though that might depend upon one's perspective), and I'd like to avoid wasting my time looking at schools in countries where I'd already have been sent to the glue factory.
Questions: How old is too old? Should an aging teacher avoid seeking employment in any particular country, given that nation's cultural biases? Is it an issue of ageism at all? Could it be a legal issue and not cultural at all?
I understand that the questions above are broad and that one could probably write a book answering them. Apologies for that. Just looking for the straight skinny on it. |
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