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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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 Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear naturegirl321,
Well, there ARE exceptions, but I get the distinct impression that where you are now is not a very widely liked place:
"For those that have a very good time here in (where you are now), though rare, great for them. If only everyone could be so lucky. For those in the majority that hated some to many aspects of their job in (where you are now), it creates a generation of people who will hate their experience here for the rest of their lives. They will tell others of their experiences one way or another. Create enough of these people and it creates a bad overall image of (where you are now). By the way, (where you are now) doesn�t have a great image to begin with; no real tourist attractions, lack of diverse and distinctive foods, and lack of a friendly society. How do you hire people for jobs that no one wants� throw more money at the problem and hope it goes away, which seems to be the procedure here."
I'd add the link, but . . . .
Regards,
John |
Agreed. It's probably because I have a great job!
I do know a couple peopel I here who want to go to VN. They say the pay is pretty good and cost of living is good, so you can save. BUt I like being on a salary and getting paid vacations. |
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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Undesirable Locations |
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| Quote: |
[quote="Steinmann"]Question:
Of the possible ESL destinations in the world, where would you not want to teach and why?
My question stems from results of repeated application of a principle I learned in army messhalls: Learn to like what others do not, and you'll always have plenty of chow.
quote] |
I've never been there myself, but I've heard Somalia is one to avoid if you can. I would imagine your messhall principle wouldn't do you much good there, not unless you want to be a pirate. Argghhh Jim lad!!  |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| London, England. |
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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Undesirable Locations |
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[quote="bulgogiboy"]
| Quote: |
| Steinmann wrote: |
Question:
Of the possible ESL destinations in the world, where would you not want to teach and why?
My question stems from results of repeated application of a principle I learned in army messhalls: Learn to like what others do not, and you'll always have plenty of chow.
quote] |
I've never been there myself, but I've heard Somalia is one to avoid if you can. I would imagine your messhall principle wouldn't do you much good there, not unless you want to be a pirate. Argghhh Jim lad!! |
Well, they'd be some damn well-spoken pirates, if I had anything to do with it. Check it out:
Pirate: Please excuse us, sir, but we are here to deprive you of your cargo and of your freedom for a short period. If you would be so kind as to heave to...
Captain: Wot? Get off my ship, afore I gut ye. You don't know who yer foolin' with.
Priate: Now, sir, there's no need for rudeness and none for violence, either. For goodness sake, you ended your last utterance with a preposition. We'll have none of that, sir. Now, please relinquish the helm, and after the contents of your holds have been offloaded and your ransom has been paid, you may proceed according to your will.
Captain: Avast, ye scallywag! Ye'll swing for this, or my name ain't Cap'n Boozy MacDontrunfromshit!
Priate: Indeed, sir, I quite admire your enthusiasm, but your use of ain't, as well as your other colloquialisms, while wonderful examples of nonstandard usage, absolutely will not do. You are simply murdering the Queen's English. [To companions] Gentlemen, secure the ship, if you please. [To the Captain] Now then, sir, have a seat just there and repeat after me...
...and so forth.
Oh, they'd be wonderful! |
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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Undesirable Locations |
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Ba dum bum.... flop.
Hooboy. Tough room.
Ah well, I tried. I promise I'm better at teaching than I am at stand-up. |
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Ariadne
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 960
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Well, I enjoyed it. Teaching and stand-up have a lot in common.
. |
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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Ariadne wrote: |
Well, I enjoyed it. Teaching and stand-up have a lot in common.
. |
Well, thank you, m'lady.
Sooooooo...that's no to Somalia. Got it.
Next? |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Steinmann wrote: |
I might find there a bunch of eager, western-minded pupils yearning to speak English, and I might decided to marry a local and put down roots. I doubt it, but it's possible. Never know until you try. |
Ah, yes... who can resist the sensual allure of a famed 'love safari' through the Democratic People's Republic of Korea? As for the [doubtful, but nonetheless �possible�] prospect of finding "a bunch of eager, western-minded pupils yearning to speak English" - what are you talking about? Seriously  I know you qualified everything with the premise that, although it may be unlikely, it was still �possible�. However, the problem I have with this line of argument is that I am sufficiently open-minded to acknowledge that just about anything is �possible�. For all I know, it may be �possible� to teach a pig how to read, but I don�t go around on internet forums advising people to consider attempting it with the get-out clause that they will �never know until they try�.
Anyway I do believe I shall take this opportunity to rant for a while  Firstly, I should state clearly that I have something of a grisly fascination when it comes to the DPRK and I really do believe that their atrocious international human rights reputation is well deserved and is, if anything, under-reported. Just so we are clear I am probably not the most unbiased person on this issue and the below is just my take.
The entire country of North Korea is little more than a gigantic and incredibly obscene personality cult with concentration camps thrown in for good measure. The state-run propaganda devoted to the adulation of 'the Dear Leader' and 'the Great Leader' is so pervasive it would have made Mao, Stalin or Hitler blush. The �success� of the cult has only been possible due to the will of the totalitarian state to have it occur and by taking advantage of traditional Korean beliefs concerning ancestor worship and Confucianism. To steal from Christopher Hitchens it is almost like the country of North Korea was founded as some sort of sick experiment to see whether George Orwell's vision in �1984� could exist in reality.
With this in mind, where would you expect to [�possibly�] find "a bunch of eager, Western-minded pupils" in that miserable basket case of a country? There is no internet in North Korea, [there is a kind of intranet where you can read about 'the Dear Leader' and 'the Great Leader' and so on] and North Korean radio, books, 'newspapers' and TV are completely state-owned and run. True, there are some illegal DVDs floating around and I have read very recently that North Korean TV is soon going to take the almost unprecedented step of broadcasting a Western movie. The highly forgettable (but inoffensive) 2002 British film 'Bend it Like Beckham' will soon be appearing on the small screen in a North Korean living room near you! Despite the film's PG-13 rating, Nork censors still saw fit to cut out about a tenth of the movie.
Anyway, what I am saying is how can there be any realistic hope (no matter how slight) of teaching "eager, Western-minded pupils" when there is that level of exposure to the West? Even students who might have some free thinking tendencies would probably be too pragmatic and cautious to display it. As for �possibly� deciding "to marry a local and put down roots", it is illegal for a normal North Korean citizen to even look (yes, that�s right �look�) at a Westerner unless they have permission by a member of the security services. I'm not making this up! Anyway I think it might be time to move on 
| Steinmann wrote: |
I get the impression that visa/immigration issues are a headache in Vietnam, especially for an American. |
It wasn't too bad for me (I am an Australian) but from what I hear they do make it more inconvenient for Americans. Sorry I don't want to get into specifics simply because I don't know enough about it and the rules always seem to be changing. Probably do a search or start a thread in the Vietnam forum would be the way to go. Having said that I have meet tonnes of Americans while I have been here so if you are interested in Vietnam I wouldn't let the visa rules deter you  |
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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
| Steinmann wrote: |
I might find there a bunch of eager, western-minded pupils yearning to speak English, and I might decided to marry a local and put down roots. I doubt it, but it's possible. Never know until you try. |
Ah, yes... who can resist the sensual allure of a famed 'love safari' through the Democratic People's Republic of Korea? As for the [doubtful, but nonetheless �possible�] prospect of finding "a bunch of eager, western-minded pupils yearning to speak English" - what are you talking about? Seriously I know you qualified everything with the premise that, although it may be unlikely, it was still �possible�. However, the problem I have with this line of argument is that I am sufficiently open-minded to acknowledge that just about anything is �possible�. For all I know, it may be �possible� to teach a pig how to read, but I don�t go around on internet forums advising people to consider attempting it with the get-out clause that they will �never know until they try�.
Anyway I do believe I shall take this opportunity to rant for a while Firstly, I should state clearly that I have something of a grisly fascination when it comes to the DPRK and I really do believe that their atrocious international human rights reputation is well deserved and is, if anything, under-reported. Just so we are clear I am probably not the most unbiased person on this issue and the below is just my take.
The entire country of North Korea is little more than a gigantic and incredibly obscene personality cult with concentration camps thrown in for good measure. The state-run propaganda devoted to the adulation of 'the Dear Leader' and 'the Great Leader' is so pervasive it would have made Mao, Stalin or Hitler blush. The �success� of the cult has only been possible due to the will of the totalitarian state to have it occur and by taking advantage of traditional Korean beliefs concerning ancestor worship and Confucianism. To steal from Christopher Hitchens it is almost like the country of North Korea was founded as some sort of sick experiment to see whether George Orwell's vision in �1984� could exist in reality.
With this in mind, where would you expect to [�possibly�] find "a bunch of eager, Western-minded pupils" in that miserable basket case of a country? There is no internet in North Korea, [there is a kind of intranet where you can read about 'the Dear Leader' and 'the Great Leader' and so on] and North Korean radio, books, 'newspapers' and TV are completely state-owned and run. True, there are some illegal DVDs floating around and I have read very recently that North Korean TV is soon going to take the almost unprecedented step of broadcasting a Western movie. The highly forgettable (but inoffensive) 2002 British film 'Bend it Like Beckham' will soon be appearing on the small screen in a North Korean living room near you! Despite the film's PG-13 rating, Nork censors still saw fit to cut out about a tenth of the movie.
Anyway, what I am saying is how can there be any realistic hope (no matter how slight) of teaching "eager, Western-minded pupils" when there is that level of exposure to the West? Even students who might have some free thinking tendencies would probably be too pragmatic and cautious to display it. As for �possibly� deciding "to marry a local and put down roots", it is illegal for a normal North Korean citizen to even look (yes, that�s right �look�) at a Westerner unless they have permission by a member of the security services. I'm not making this up! Anyway I think it might be time to move on |
I was kidding, Top.
| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
| Steinmann wrote: |
I get the impression that visa/immigration issues are a headache in Vietnam, especially for an American. |
It wasn't too bad for me (I am an Australian) but from what I hear they do make it more inconvenient for Americans. Sorry I don't want to get into specifics simply because I don't know enough about it and the rules always seem to be changing. Probably do a search or start a thread in the Vietnam forum would be the way to go. Having said that I have meet tonnes of Americans while I have been here so if you are interested in Vietnam I wouldn't let the visa rules deter you |
Yeah, Vietnam is not out of the question. It sounds good to me.
What about places like Kinshasa, Urumqi, or Colombo? These are a little more out-of-the-way, I think. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Steinmann wrote: |
I was kidding, Top. |
Glad to hear it (and truth be told I did wonder), but, like I said, just about anything is possible. I don't know you from a bar of soap so whether you were being sincere in what you originally wrote, or whether, as you state now, you were just joking around, I had/have no reason to disbelieve you either way. Besides, unfortunately there are people out there who do honestly think exactly like you expressed in your original post and I know this because I have met some of them (not just in regards to North Korea, but other things as well). They are not necessarily bad people, that's just the way they are. Some of them are naive, some of them don't follow international news (by that I mean 'at all') and some of them are both. I even know of some people who go further in their actual beliefs in real life concerning the DPRK than you did with your little joke on the internet.
I'm not naming names, but there is fairly well-known (and well-liked) expat in Hanoi who sincerely admired the DPRK for being a young, small revolutionary nation that was courageously withstanding the imperialistic might of the USA. As to reports of atrocities coming out of North Korea.....that was just propaganda  She went so far as to actually visit North Korea for her annual holiday (no doubt so she could confirm the correctness of her world view). When she came back everyone was naturally very interested to hear about what it was like. She wouldn't talk about it
Nothing remotely new in any of this of course. Look how shocked the world was when the details of the Holocaust were fully revealed. Sure there had been reports, but this had just been viewed by many as propaganda and not to be taken seriously. Ditto when Reader's Digest published the article 'Murder in a Gentle Land' which documented Khmer Rouge atrocities in Cambodia. The same will happen when the DPRK falls. The world will be, for some mysterious reason, shocked once again, despite the fact that there is more than sufficient evidence to prove that these horrendous abuses have been going on from the start. As I said, glad to hear you are not one of them Steinmann, but, it seems some people just won't wake up to reality until they have been inundated with months of news cycles replete with graphic footage  |
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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Steinmann,
It's a pretty reliable rule-of-thumb:
The more pleasant a place is, the less money you're likely to get - and, of course, the less pleasant a place, the more money.
Of course, this is only a "general rule." I mean, there are people who find the Middle East pleasant. And there are others who find the adventure of teaching in, say, Mongolia or some sub-Sahara African country worth the low salary.
Regards,
John |
This is a pretty reliable rule of thumb. I keep looking for jobs in the Greek islands which pay the same as Saudi, but they appear to be thin on the ground. |
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bulgogiboy
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| About the DPRK: I've seen British Council jobs advertised for Pyongyang a couple of times now. I totally agree about the sickness of the regime, but I still think working there, in such a unique and bizarre environment, would provide some fascinating experiences. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bulgogiboy wrote: |
| About the DPRK: I've seen British Council jobs advertised for Pyongyang a couple of times now. I totally agree about the sickness of the regime, but I still think working there, in such a unique and bizarre environment, would provide some fascinating experiences. |
No, I doubt it. They would keep you highly insulated. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Zero wrote: |
| bulgogiboy wrote: |
| About the DPRK: I've seen British Council jobs advertised for Pyongyang a couple of times now. I totally agree about the sickness of the regime, but I still think working there, in such a unique and bizarre environment, would provide some fascinating experiences. |
No, I doubt it. They would keep you highly insulated. |
You wouldn't have much to talk about. Most topics would be off limits, even if you spoke fluent Korean. |
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Steinmann
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 255
Location: In the frozen north
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| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Zero wrote: |
| bulgogiboy wrote: |
| About the DPRK: I've seen British Council jobs advertised for Pyongyang a couple of times now. I totally agree about the sickness of the regime, but I still think working there, in such a unique and bizarre environment, would provide some fascinating experiences. |
No, I doubt it. They would keep you highly insulated. |
You wouldn't have much to talk about. Most topics would be off limits, even if you spoke fluent Korean. |
One wouldn't be able just to wander the countryside talking with the locals, handing out free 5-minute English lessons as he went on his merry way? |
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