Job Discussion Forums

[Noelle]

Hi everyone

I've popped in and out of the Middle Eastern forums over the past few years but have never stopped in on this one for the KSA.

I'm currently teaching Saudi male (grad level) students here in the U.S. They are on scholarship and most of them will be taking the GRE and/or TOEFL by next fall. Their goal is to complete our program by this summer and start their masters immediately after.

I teach a variety of classes from beginner listening all the way to Advanced grammar and advanced TOEFL prep courses. I have students from Europe and Asia as well as other countries in the M.E., but the overwhelming majority are Saudi men- age 21 and up.

I'm 32, unmarried and a Christian (fairly conservative, Baptist style) and though I don't advertise it, my students are very aware of it because they know I am involved in church. While we don't discuss religion EVER in class, it has come up outside of class and I've even received some emails from my students. I've also been invited to several homes in Riyadh and been asked numerous times why I would spend so much time teaching in Asia, Latin America and the U.S., but won't consider Saudi Arabia.

I really don't know what to make of this. To me it seems like common sense. Why would any rational thinking Saudi man suggest a single Christian female to come and work in his country and stay in his home? Am I being inexusably discriminating and ignorant by feeling defensive over this?

Since starting this job in September, I've also made it known to my employer that I will tutor Saudi female students privately, but not males. I have no problems doing private tutoring with male students from the other countries. I expect this to be understood especially as a number of other female teachers do the same thing.

Strange as it may sound after everything I've stated above, the Saudi male students are my favorite group. I love teaching them in classes. They are charming, articulate, motivated, clever and very funny. I look forward to going to work every single day because of them. I even enjoy spending time with them during lunch breaks and after class.

So my question is, am I being paranoid and intolerant in my decisions regarding this job and these particular students as well as in my attitude toward their country as a possible workplace for me?

One student told me that I could never truly understand his country until I visited for myself and I basically agree. But I don't feel I need to travel there to understand that the KSA is no place for a western woman, especially one like me. And as for tutoring them privately, again it just seems like it should be common sense. Perhaps I need to just make a point of agreeing to teach one on one lessons with female students only period rather than excluding only one group of males and accepting the others.

I'd really appreciate some feedback here. I want to make a good impression on ALL the international students here.

[sheikh yer money-maker]

In regards to your happy, open relationship to your male Saudi students in the States...think about it this way:

"What happens in 'Vegas, stays in 'Vegas."

You can tell your student that many of us have lived here for YEARS and still don't understand it.

[johnslat]

Dear Noelle,


"So my question is, am I being paranoid and intolerant in my decisions regarding this job and these particular students as well as in my attitude toward their country as a possible workplace for me?"

No!

"Am I being inexusably discriminating and ignorant by feeling defensive over this?"

No! And don't feel at all "guilty," either.


"One student told me that I could never truly understand his country until I visited for myself . . . ."

Very true - I tell people the same thing about my service in the Marines in Vietnam in 1966. In other words, complete understanding almost certainly will NOT beget complete forgiveness in this instance.

So, no, no, Noelle - don't even consider going to Saudi, and don't privately tutor male Saudi students. While there might be no problem with many, you can almost certainly bet that there would be some problems with at least a few.

Regards,
John

[Grendal]

Hello Noelle,

You may be teaching some of the Saudi students that I was teaching here last year. They were graduate students that were taking a specially organized programme to prepare them for the western world. Most of the time our class was consumed with the topic of western women. We were given leeway on matters like this and some open discussion was permitted due to the nature of the programme.

Their invitation to their homes comes from their culture. They are very hospitable people and go out of their way to help you. BUT.........
I am a little concerned about their ulterior motive. Maybe if you were there in Saudi and married an invitation would be appropriate and you would go to the women's hangout and your husband would go to the istiraha with the men. End of story. Hosts will host and guests will be guests then you get up and leave for home. This is the real Saudi that they are talking about, not the one where you go to their homes as a single woman and even stay for an extended period of time.

Pardon me but I will be quite frank as I have been with my students that were leaving for universities abroad. They think with that part between their legs not their shoulders. It is very hard for these young men that have been segregated from early childhood from women to be suddenly thrust into the heart of haram.

If you came here you would not be teaching men at all. Possibly at a language school you might be teaching young boys between 5 and 10 years old but that would be the extent of your contact with the opposite sex.

I hope this helps you in your decision making process.

Regards.

Grendal

[veiledsentiments]

Now let a female make a comment or two. I agree with John that heading off to teach in Saudi is probably not a great idea. If you want to sample the culture, I suggest choosing one of the other Gulf countries where you don't have the restrictions of Saudi. That is not to say that there are not a number of Western women who have enjoyed their time teaching the women in Saudi. (like Cleopatra)

As to private lessons with Saudi men in the US... I would probably do it. But would carefully consider the place. It wouldn't be "just the two of us" at either of our homes. In your office with the door open during the day... or if the library has areas where people can work together quietly...

VS

[johnslat]

Dear veiledsentiments,

Personally, I would advise against any female teacher privately tutoring a Saudi male student, no matter how "safe" the tutoring place might be.

My reason for writing this is that, generally speaking, Saudi males have a very culturally determined opinion of females in general and of non-Saudi females, specifically.
A Saudi male who asked a female teacher for some private tutoring would, more likely than not, be much less interested in acquiring knowledge than in other matters. And since many Saudi males consider non-Saudi women as, well, shall we say "loose women," then, if a Western female teacher were to agree to tutor a Saudi male, he would most probably take that to mean that she really wanted to "get it on."
Sure, an open office door or a library setting would likely stop any hanky-panky during the lesson. But were I a woman, I know that I would not want a Saudi male who probably thought I was lusting after his virile body to be maybe following me around before and after the lesson.

Sure, nothing might happen, but I think it's just asking for trouble.

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

Yes, but you must remember that I spent years teaching in the Gulf and most of my classes had males. I have tutored a number of Arab Muslim males in Egypt, Kuwait, and Oman... with zero problems. But, I do know and understand the culture and know their little obsessions. Yes, Saudis are the worst of the lot, of course.

But... we women have spent our lives dealing with male misconceptions.

VS

[johnslat]

Dewar veiledsentiments,

Saudis are a special case. I would always advise any woman who might ask me never to agree to privately tutor a Saudi male.

Regards,
John

[Noelle]

Wow!!
Thank you all for the quick responses.

I could actually use some help with other Saudi student related issues that come up in my classes here in the future, so I'll be stopping in on this forum more often now.

What's ironic about this whole situation is that I left my job in Asia to come to this school here in California knowing that it was predominantly Saudi. I wanted the experience so I could market myself a bit more in the Middle East in the future.


I am dying to work with these Arab women and I keep hoping one of the Saudi or Kuwaiti girls will approach me for private lessons. But so far it's only been the men. I'd even be keen to tutor their children, even though I don't really enjoy teaching kids anymore, just for the experience of working so intimately with that culture.

VS, I'm going to send you an email or PM soon...
Thanks so much for the responses here.

[veiledsentiments]

[Linguist]

[Grendal]

Yes I agree very disciplined and all that but at the end of the day...........

Wolves in sheep's clothing (thobes) = unmarried young Saudi men (90% accuracy rate)

Grendal

[Noelle]

Funny you should mention that.
A Kuwaiti student told me those exact words in reference to Saudi "men" last Wednesday.

There are some students (former students now) of mine that I'd actually like to teach privately. One of them in particular is going to be heading off to grad school soon and he wanted some extra help with writing. When he asked me for private lessons, I told him sure.

But then I thought better of it and told him later that I couldn't. I felt so bad because I gave him a lame excuse as to why. And he acted disappointed. In class, this guy had never been anything more than a hardworking and gentlemanly.

[johnslat]

Dear Noelle,

Perhaps that student WAS sincere in just wanting tutoring; he might BE a "gentleman."

But given the upbringing that Saudi males have and the attitudes they almost all/maybe all have about Western/Oriental women in particular, I'd say the odds are against it.

Yup, I'm generalizing, but I spent nineteen years teaching literally tens of thousands of Saudi males in the Kingdom.


I certainly wouldn't want my sister/daughter/wife/mother privately tutoring one. The risk is just too great that the Saudi would try to "take advantage" of the situation.

Regards,
John

[Bebsi]

Noelle,

Here's my tuppence ha'penny worth.

Of all the nationalities I have taught, I can say without reservation that Saudis are my favourites. They are polite, respectful, curious, eager to learn (many would disagree with me on this one, I know) and have a sardonic sense of humour. While they love their country, they know it is 'different' in many ways, and they really do have a very sensible approach to things. They are also great fun! Their attitude to respect is totally quid pro quo: they will show you as much respect as you show them. Always remember that.

My wife, who has also taught in Saudi Arabia, feels similarly about Saudi students, albeit of the female sex.

Having said all that, Saudi Arabia is a cultural minefield for single women, and I will not go into the issues here as they've been well-documented elsewhere in this forum.

Your male students obviously don't have any problems dealing with you as a female, in a western environment. In the kingdom, however, they are very much subject to their own social rules and mores, and would relate you on a very different level. In theory, that is. In practice, as other posters have pointed out, you would only get to teach female students.

If you want to go to Saudi, do so, but don't expect to teach males as you do in the US (unless they are prepubescent). You will teach females only, which is, I believe, equally pleasant and rewarding. Although Saudi is a cultural minefield for a single western woman, western women do make a success of it, Cleopatra being a case in point. You will, I would emphasize, need to learn as much as possible about the culture before going there.

But yes, it is possible to do it and to make a success of it. Just do your homework first.

Good luck!