Job Discussion Forums

[lechatnoir]

Hello all,
I had just posted a bit ago, being an inexperienced teacher in the world of ESL. I ended up taking a better job at a program that pays well. However, had the worst experience and am still reeling from it. The program is in an upper class area so therefore, the students have quite a snobbish attitude.
The worst part, however, is when asked about intercultural marriage/dating, one students' pat reply was "I only like girls with white skin" and that he didn't like "dark black skin".

Needless to say, extremely sensitive topic for me. Not sure whether to continue due to this one incident or if I should find another program more suitable. The thing is- it's a language program and not a university. Advice? Similar experiences?

[spiral78]

I'm afraid the most important quality of an EFL teacher's skin is its thickness, regardless of colour. Most of the world doesn't worry about 'politically correct' expression.

I've been taken aback by occasional really nasty comments about Americans in the past...but learned to let it all go.

My American friends of Asian descent faced the occasional nasty comment in Prague. It happens - but if you let it scare you away, well, then you'll be walking away a LOT.

For what it's worth, I think this incident is pretty mild and that it wouldn't be worth your time and energy to change programmes just on this basis. It's not as though you wanted to date and marry that particular student, after all!!

[artemisia]

Racism is always a hard one to deal with and I�ve been surprised myself, at times, at how unashamed some people are at expressing racist views.
"I only like girls with white skin" is the sort of silly, ignorant statement I�ve heard myself a few times. I�ve sometimes waxed lyrically and truthfully about finding Polynesian skin colour stunning as did the painter, Paul Gauguin, in Tahiti etc. (I think good old Gauguin had a good deal more on his mind then just painting though). If you can stomach it, humour might help: "Then you'll never know what you're missing out on. Your loss!"

I take it when you say a �sensitive subject� this means you have dark skin. If so, I think that would make challenging racist views harder. I�m afraid Spiral is right about the �thick skin� needed.

[cartago]

It sounds like the student was just expressing his personal preference for physical attractiveness but doing it in a rude way. Perhaps he didn't mean to offend. I think a lot of people in Turkey rather than racist are just not used to being sensitive about these issues. Of course if you mention Kurdish people then you hear some more serious racism.

[lechatnoir]

Thank you both for your advice and input into the situation. Being new in the teaching world, I'm still learning. However, any advice on how to grow thick skin? I feel almost emotionally mangled after these experiences and I'm wondering if I'm just failing as a teacher. Am I just not suitable? Or do these things come with experience?

The ignorance is overwhelming. "I'm from America" is usually followed by "Oh really, you don't look American!". And the "I thought you were a Hindu" (whatever that means) and "you look like you are from Malaysia" (followed by a hearty laugh). "Your eyes look like (stretches eyes upwards to show that my eyes are a bit oriental, followed by a hearty laugh)..."chinky eyes" "Chinese people are ugly" and "Do you have a green card?".

Perhaps I'm a wee bit irritated.

Also, I also feel a bit overwhelmed by the lack of professionalism in this country. There's almost an invisible pressure to join the "pack", so to speak, by gossiping and being good friends. If you do maintain distance and are professional, then, you get labeled "cold" and "unfriendly"

(Edited so I don't confuse readers. Most of the comments definitely are coming from adult students)

[artemisia]

Lechatnoir

I think you have enough posts for a private message (PM) so going to try sending you one.

[bulgogiboy]

[Adela]

lechatnoir
I know what you're talking about, I'm native American and have been teaching English for about 7 yrs, in Prague as well as Istanbul and Barcelona. I'd like to send you a private msg.[/i]

[lechatnoir]

[bulgogiboy]

[Teacher Journey]

I would like to offer you some advice on growing a �thick skin�. I am a black male and I recently taught in Turkey last year 2009-2010 in Sakarya, Adapazari. Pretty conservative city, covered women everywhere. I was the only black person around in this city, except for one time when I saw another black guy, just once 7 months after being there. But what I am getting at is that Turkish people mean very well.

They do for the most part lack cultural sensitivity, but they don�t really mean any harm by it. And what I found is that when they speak a lot of words are empty. A good thing to remember is that when they speak not everyone can express themselves to say what they really mean, because they don�t have all the vocabulary. But overall people there are just curious and most of them are happy and excited to see you.

That student�s personal preference most likely wasn�t directed towards you. It was his general statement which he could not expand on by saying expect for Halle Berry or something. So don�t take it so personal. Because coming from a guy, I would say, for 99.9% of men the skin color really doesn�t matter, really.
The people in Turkey from my experience, who haven�t been influenced by America or Europe because they lived there, are very accepting of black people.

And get use to the surprise response when you say �I am from America�. I got that all the time. Usually they would say, are you from Nigeria. The reason for this is because they see a lot of black people from various African countries. And believe it or not they watch a lot of American television and movies. And everyone from America knows that there are not a lot of black people in mainstream American movies and television. They know that there are black people in America, but when they think of an American they are not thinking about Native Americans or Americans that look black, Hispanic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, or a combination of. They are thinking about White Americans, so don�t let it bum you out. It�s all they know and it is what they are exposed to.
And like bulgogiboy said �unfortunately college education doesn't count half as much towards personal development as a basic education in decency and respect for others, from your parents.�

In Turkey don�t expect, college education to mean more cultural awareness and sensitivity. The country is pretty homogenous when it comes to culture. Just think about how culturally diverse some parts of America is like New York, where I live, but college educated people are still culturally ignorant and they are surrounded by various cultures.

the "I thought you were a Hindu" (whatever that means) . They thought you were from India most likely.

"you look like you are from Malaysia" (followed by a hearty laugh). Don�t let the laughs and giggles bother you. I never quite came to a complete understanding of them but sometimes it will be a shy giggle or an excited, I�m giddy, giggle because I just saw a black person in real life.

I think I wrote to much, I figure I could offer as much advice as I could because I was in a similar situation. But do not see these occurrences as a reflection of your teaching skills. You will encounter this in every school, even in a city as diverse as Istanbul. Go outside of Istanbul (European side) and you will experience even more attention. But just remember it is all curiosity nothing intentional.

My best advice is to learn Turkish quick it changes a lot of things. And it is fun to hear people talk about you, and then respond to them, because they don�t expect you to know Turkish.

Hang in there it becomes more fun.
Your daily interactions may become a little annoying because you are dark and you will stick out like a sore thumb. Just don�t let the giggling and staring bother you and the picture taking. If it hasn�t happened already you will be getting some fans that want to take pictures with you.

Oh and don�t expect American Professionalism, it�s Turkey they are more relaxed. Work colleagues are closer and student teacher relationship is closer. Opposite of America. Enjoy it

[lechatnoir]

[cartago]

I totally agree, the double standard is really irritating. We have to be very sensitive to their culture and politics but they can say any kind of rude thing about ours. Sometimes you will meet a more enlightened person and some Turks go to the opposite extreme.

There's definitely a chauvinist attitude among some Turks and you're right about them saying everyone in the world is a Turk. Some Turks will claim everyone who may or may not have even the slightest connection with Turks as Turks - such as Hungarians, Finns or say the Great Wall was built because of them - these kinds of Pan-Turkic exaggerations and mythology. Kind of like a modern Englishman taking pride in his fellow Germanic Visigoths and saying they were English. Anyway got off on a tangent.

I know it's kind of tough to fit in sometimes. While the culture in Turkey is on the surface very open and friendly people can also be very judgemental and gossipy. Maybe you could bring some snacks like simit or poagca for breakfast for everyone or try chatting with people over tea. Ask people Turkish language questions or something.

Honestly I think it's a bit weird for Turks to at least not be familiar with black Americans as Americans since they all know about Obama, 50 Cent, Michael Jordan, etc.

After awhile in Turkey you will come to meet some more like-minded Turks and appreciate them more.

[lechatnoir]

[kazpat]

@ Teacher Journey

I don't teach in Turkey but am African American, was a grad student there for a year, lived there and continue to visit frequently.

That is a great post, thanks.