Job Discussion Forums

[btsmrtfan]

I believe there may be something else going on here.

The problem in getting teachers to go to China may not be as much about the school doing the right or wrong thing in hiring as it is that many people simply do not want anything to do with China and are turned off by the idea of working in China.

In the OP's own words:

"It appears China has developed an unfavorable reputation."

It may not be the school that keeps them from turning up. It may be the country in the sense some people find it difficult to reconcile living and working in a country they find offensive for one reason or another.

I'm not saying that I agree with this line of thinking, but I am throwing it out there as a possible explanation for the situation described by wildgander.

[the_otter]

When I was looking for a job this summer after finishing my CELTA, I applied for work in China because it was one of the few countries in the world that still had plenty of openings for teachers without one year's experience who didn't want to work with teenagers. In short, I was desperate. (But not so desperate that I was willing to apply to somewhere not offering a decent salary - 5000RMB - help with a Z visa, an apartment, a respectable-seeming contract and flight reimbursement.)

I'm not sure how schools in China could go about attracting experienced teachers. Most people on Dave's and elsewhere say that experience of TEFL in China doesn't count for much on a CV, so I suspect that, except for the long-term Sinophiles, a lot of good teachers will stay away. Like btsmrtfan says, the problem may not lie with the individual schools.

I'm planning to leave once my contract is up, not because I don't have a comfortable life and a good job here, but because I don't want to get stranded in China indefinitely.

[wildgander]

the_otter wrote: "experience of TEFL in China doesn't count for much on a CV".

Now I had missed this. I hadn't realized that TEFL experience would be weighted by country taught in.

How is that done? What countries weigh highly and are there other countries like China that don't seem to be highly regarded?

[auchtermuchty]

[vikeologist]

I feel like I'm lazily stereotyping, but I've been in or witnessed the classes of 30 or so Chinese teachers (of English, Chinese or Spanish) and they have all been somewhere between badly taught and utterly dreadful.

When I talk to potential employers I personally want to know that they have some idea about teaching languages. I believe that the Chinese approach to teaching languages is wrong, so the most important thing for me wqould be to speak to the Director of Studies (or equivalent) at the school, and for them to not be an ignorant idiot.

[nickpellatt]

This really might just be me, but I think we are almost going about this back-to-front.

Assuming 'we' on the board are the experienced China teachers, shouldnt you tell us what your recruiting company is, what they offer (in detail) and how they are currently operating? This way the 'experienced' China hands could evaluate the business/recruiting model, suggest why it does/doesnt work, and offer suggestions for the model to be improved in a way that would address your areas of concern.

Otherwise there is a very real risk that you are simply just asking for things foreign teachers like to hear at interview/recruitment stage so you can say the right things to impress them without really addressing the fundamental issues of your business.

Apologies if Im wrong, but thats how I have read this thread so far. To be honest, without knowing in some detail what your business is, then my opinion may be pretty worthless so I wouldnt share it anyway. You may (for example) be concerned with employing K-12 certified teachers in top tier cities, and the requirement for this would be vastly different to a recuiter who specialises in public school positions in urban areas.

More info about you needed IMO, especially if you want accurate and relevant responses.

[wildgander]

Nick, you make some important points. At this time I am being very cautious about being too identifiable because I don't want to risk being misunderstood or even fired by my employer.

I am not a recruiter. I am a teacher and have been teaching in China just since last fall. My employers have asked for my opinions and assistance and I am trying to discover how to educate them as to what is needed to do a first class job teaching English. This is my first year teaching ESL but I have over ten years experience teaching other subjects and I have some experience with having ESL students in those classes.

My real interest is not what to say in recruiting but how to understand how to communicate to my employers about the importance of supporting the teaching staff with good accommodations, curriculum, texts and class size.

I also don't know what to make of their student evaluations as they seem to consist of many categories but without specific or measurable criteria for evaluation. To take just one example, I am asked to evaluate the student's oral expression, but no yardstick to compare their performance to. Is this to be sufficient to get by as tourist? To have conversations about themselves and their culture? To be able to take part in a classroom discussion in English in the United states? It seems like there is a recognition of what needs to be accomplished but little grasp of the processes or approaches needed.

I am teaching high school and one class is for students who have or might have ambition to do foreign study. I have learned that the Chinese government has decided for economic reasons that learning English is a priority in colleges. I guess I am still puzzled that given the interest in learning English that I am having trouble finding good materials or curriculum in place and that often my supervisors are unwilling to purchase and make available the materials that would make for the quality of education they are telling me they want.

I keep hearing how Chinese education uses rote learning and drill more than we do in the States. I am trying to introduce to the students the kind of classroom participation that would be expected of them if they attended colleges in the United States.

In short I'm interested in how to understand my Chinese employers and how to communicate to them effectively without turning them off about what is needed to improve their program. They are having trouble hiring enough native speakers. One article I read online suggested that China has a demand for tens of thousand of native speakers to teach English. Given the population of China that could be accurate and if that is the case it could be that supply is insufficient for the demand. I don't know. I'm still going through culture shock and trying to learn how to function here.

Thank you.

Wildgander

[7969]

[johntpartee]

Many Chinese see foreigners as childish or clownish. Unfortunately, this image has been perpetuated by the foreign "teachers". The proverbial "Caucasian-face-with-a-pulse" is only too true in many cases. Most of the teachers I've encountered here wouldn't be able to pack the gear to be an assistant night manager at Burger King. The employers get away with treating most of us like dirt because they can get away with it. Let's show them they can't get away with it. Getting fired? Hell, they can't fire me, I quit! When a decent job does present itself, most of the teachers display an appalling lack of professionalism; unkempt, hungover, dressed like street people, lusting after students.....the list goes on and on.

[wildgander]

I am hearing that my experiences are not exceptional. In a way that is a relief and in another way it is discouraging.

When I was applying for jobs here I was struck how the recruiters or schools had no interest in my official transcripts but wanted scans of my diplomas. To an American an official transcript has so much more information including whether one graduated or not. The diploma is a wall decoration.

I have a pretty good salary and that may be in part because I have advanced degrees and professional experience. I'm shocked to hear that "most of the teachers display an appalling lack of professionalism; unkempt, hungover, dressed like street people, lusting after students.....the list goes on and on." That said I would think that teachers who are professional and hard working would be valued and treated with appreciation?!

I'm wondering if I will have any luck in turning my employer's attention away from diplomas and to the official transcript. My employer's are not recruiters. They are hiring teachers to teach in programs that they develop and contract with the school to teach so they may be more open to getting information to help make a quality assessment.

I wish to thank all the contributors to this thread. As a newbie in China all your comments have been helpful.

Wildgander

[johntpartee]

[mike w]

It is a sad fact of the ESL world in China that many schools advertise for 'teachers' when in reality they want native English speaking 'entertainers' to keep the kids happy, just so they can satisfy the promises they have made to parents about having foreign English teachers. In these situations, and there are far too many of them, the 'teaching qualifications and teaching ability' are quickly relegated to the lower echelons of unimportance.

[kazpat]

[Trifaro]

[wildgander]

Having heard so much about the emphasis on Education in Korea and China, and certainly the children spend more hours in class than students in America, I'm puzzled that they aren't interested in how effective their English instruction is.

Is this because English language ability isn't really taken seriously? Or are other subjects treated the same way?

Wildgander