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Accepting an offer without knowing the location?
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tim_watts



Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 17
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Accepting an offer without knowing the location? Reply with quote

I have several interviews this month with Heart and Interac[/b]

Heart and Interac have all told me that I need to be flexible with regard to where I am eventually placed. I don't know what Shane will require.

Could any one here kindly help answer some questions?

If one company gives me an offer after the interview and I accept, do they then proceed to get me to apply for a visa with them alone, without knowing where I will end up being located?

Do they wait until the visa application process is at a late stage and then tell me where I will work?

If after they tell me where I will work and it's in some boring rural location (IMO) in the middle of nowhere, can I then change my mind and decline the offer?

Can I then accept an offer of another job with a different company/school?

Will I be able to get visa sponsorship with someone else?

Thanks in advance.


Last edited by tim_watts on Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop any considerations with RCS and Heart. They have had far too many bad stories (and I mean horrible!) to even think about them.

As for locations, why be so picky? I mean, really! You are going to travel a few thousand miles to teach (right? teach, not party and get paid for it), and you will experience a new culture no matter where you are, urban or rural.

Furthermore, even the giant chain eikaiwas present and past have held off on telling people locations until 2 weeks prior to being put there, and things have not been awful. The bigger the employer, the more chance there is that he is having a devil of a time sorting out who is leaving a location (many foreigners bolt at the last minute), and who actually needs a new employee to add to the existing roster.

Quote:
If one company gives me an offer after the interview and I accept, do they then proceed to get me to apply for a visa with them alone, without knowing where I will end up being located?
You cannot apply for a visa "alone". Both parties need to supply paperwork. Depending on the employer, you may file your paperwork directly with immigration jointly or separately.

And, yes, you may not know where you will be located. All you can do is ask in advance where it will likely be, and even still, keep in mind that things might change.

Quote:
If after they tell me where I will work and it's in some boring rural location (IMO) in the middle of nowhere, can I then change my mind and decline the offer?
Yes, you can quit, but that's a really petty reason. I'm sure you will give them another reason (dead grandmother, e.g.), but c'mon! If you don't want a rural location, get your butt here and apply in the heart of the city(ies). There is no guarantee that you will get what you want unless you have an employer with few offices.

Quote:
Can I then accept an offer of another job with a different company/school?

Will I be able to get visa sponsorship with someone else?
Yes, you can accept another offer. Whether they offer visa sponsorship is another thing, but if they do, you have to start the whole visa process again. The first one will have to notify immigration to cancel processing of their sponsored visa.

Quote:
If you need some background info. I'm 29yo, have a CELTA, a degree (not related to language education) and a few years EFL teaching experience.
None of this is relevant. No offense. It just doesn't matter to the questions you asked.
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tim_watts



Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 17
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your reply. I guess everyone has their own particular preferences. I absolutely love living in big cities and I hate living in rural areas. Just my personal preference. Some people might be the complete opposite.

Therefore, I want to be located fairly close to an urban centre. I would state that at interview.

I wouldn't decline lightly, I don't like letting people down. I would only decline their offer at a later stage, if they had told me it was very likely I would end up in a suburban/urban area and they later gave me a position in the middle of nowhere.

Quote:
Yes, you can accept another offer. Whether they offer visa sponsorship is another thing, but if they do, you have to start the whole visa process again. The first one will have to notify immigration to cancel processing of their sponsored visa.


Could the first company make it difficult for me by delaying notifying immigration to cancel their sponsored visa? Is this quite common? Would they charge me money for the trouble they took to get their sponsorship visa processed by immigration and to cancel it?

In the worst case, what do you think the chances are of finding work in a major city if applying from overseas in late February / early March?

Thanks again.
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Bread



Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tim_watts wrote:

Could the first company make it difficult for me by delaying notifying immigration to cancel their sponsored visa? Is this quite common? Would they charge me money for the trouble they took to get their sponsorship visa processed by immigration and to cancel it?


They literally cannot do anything to cancel your visa. This isn't Korea, the visa is yours and you don't need to change visas if you get a new job of the same type. And if they try to charge you money, you can just laugh at them.
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bread wrote:
tim_watts wrote:

Could the first company make it difficult for me by delaying notifying immigration to cancel their sponsored visa? Is this quite common? Would they charge me money for the trouble they took to get their sponsorship visa processed by immigration and to cancel it?


They literally cannot do anything to cancel your visa. This isn't Korea, the visa is yours and you don't need to change visas if you get a new job of the same type. And if they try to charge you money, you can just laugh at them.


I think he means:

If you have a COE being processed by one company but turn down the offer before the process is complete or before they have sent it to you and they don't inform immigration, will it not cause a problem if a new company tries to sponsor a 2nd COE?
The first company is hardly going to send over the COE to a person who suddenly leaves them in the lurch, but do companies scorned often then try to get a little payback by not cancelling their sponsored COE, making it difficult for a new company to start the process?
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tim_watts wrote:
Thanks very much for your reply. I guess everyone has their own particular preferences. I absolutely love living in big cities and I hate living in rural areas. Just my personal preference. Some people might be the complete opposite.

Therefore, I want to be located fairly close to an urban centre. I would state that at interview.

I wouldn't decline lightly, I don't like letting people down. I would only decline their offer at a later stage, if they had told me it was very likely I would end up in a suburban/urban area and they later gave me a position in the middle of nowhere.
I think you won't even get to that stage if they hear from you that you are dead set on an urban location only.

Quote:
Could the first company make it difficult for me by delaying notifying immigration to cancel their sponsored visa?
This would serve nobody anything. I suspect that if they decided not to hire you and a COE was in process, they would merely inform immigration to cancel it. Realize that it takes weeks to process anyway.

Quote:
Would they charge me money for the trouble they took to get their sponsorship visa processed by immigration and to cancel it?
Some scummy outfits might try, but they have no legal footing to stand on.

Quote:
In the worst case, what do you think the chances are of finding work in a major city if applying from overseas in late February / early March?
That time period is prime hiring time. Your "chances" depend on too many factors for me to say good chance, fair chance, or poor chance. I really hate trying to give answers like that, especially since I don't know a thing about you and have no idea how you perform in interviews. Just know that it's a good hiring time, and that competition nowadays is very steep. Best of luck.

seklarwia wrote:
do companies scorned often then try to get a little payback by not cancelling their sponsored COE, making it difficult for a new company to start the process?
No, I can't believe that such a sandbox mentality exists, and I've already stated that it would not serve the employer any good. If they don't cancel the COE process, and the visa is issued, they can cancel their sponsorship of it, but the visa should still be valid. But an employer would have no reason to allow it to go that far.
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenski wrote:
That time period is prime hiring time. Your "chances" depend on too many factors for me to say good chance, fair chance, or poor chance. I really hate trying to give answers like that, especially since I don't know a thing about you and have no idea how you perform in interviews. Just know that it's a good hiring time, and that competition nowadays is very steep. Best of luck.

Perhaps for hiring in-country this is a good time. I don't think this is so for many overseas recruiters, though. When I was applying only a could of years back, I remember that many of the big boys were reporting that they had all but completed the seasons hiring by late Jan/early Feb, which makes sense especially for those that process and send out COEs to you before you arrive.
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benshi



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, for out of country March/April hires this is already on the late side. We completed our Spring hiring back in mid-November, and we'll start filling our summer openings in March and April.
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OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just spent the last very rewarding 9ish months working for Heart, they're not ideal (mainly due to the pay) but certainly don't count them out. If you want to ask me any questions drop me a PM, I'm actually also 29 and from London.
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mspxlation



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 44
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if you're sent to a rural area, you're bound to stay there only for a year, and that isn't such a long time. You will then possess "a proper visa" and can job hunt in areas that are more to your liking.

Furthermore, Japan's superb transportation network allows easy escapes to larger cities on your day off, and there are few cities in Japan that *don't* have an expat population.

An added benefit of a remote location is that it forces you to learn Japanese. While everyone under the age of about 70 has had at least three years of English instruction, many have not used their English since they left school.
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OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mspxlation wrote:
Even if you're sent to a rural area, you're bound to stay there only for a year, and that isn't such a long time. You will then possess "a proper visa" and can job hunt in areas that are more to your liking.


Are you suggesting taking a job in an area you don't want to live in, just so you can get a visa and start looking elsewhere? I wouldn't recommend that at all. The only other thing you might be suggesting is that the visa will be good for over a year, but that isn't the case either.

I'll echo what you said about not living in the heart of a big city though, it's a much better environment to learn Japanese. I'm an hour by express train from Tokyo, and living in a smaller city has given me a much better idea of a 'regular' Japanese lifestyle, while I can get my fix of the bright lights whenever I want to.
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inuzuki8605



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 98
Location: America

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneJoelFifty wrote:

Are you suggesting taking a job in an area you don't want to live in, just so you can get a visa and start looking elsewhere? I wouldn't recommend that at all. .


I live in America and I've been looking for work in Japan. Honestly, the best teaching jobs are only offered to people that already live in Japan (according to gaijinpot.com) and they will sponsor another visa for you if you are hired. It actually might be a good idea for him to bite the bullet and endure a year that may not be to his liking so he can explore the better jobs that are available to him once he gets there.

More and more, I'm thinking that that might be the best choice if there is nothing else opening up.( the season for hiring is closing soon)

Mind you, I'm not saying, in any way, to leave them high and dry in the middle of the school year. I would finish it and then move to a better place when my contract is done. (although I don't know how long Tim_Watts wants to stay in Japan. If it's just a year then what I said might not apply here.)
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tim_watts



Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 17
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your helpful replies. I think accepting an offer in a rural area would be the very last option for me, even if just for a year. I would want to try everything I could to get a position in a city first. Like I said, just personal preference. I still plan on learning Japanese either way. I'm generally good at putting myself in situations where I'm forced to use the language, wherever I am.

Anyone know which companies or schools primarily have positions in cities?

Since it may end up being a bit of a lottery, I may as well increase my chances by applying to places where the majority of positions are in urban area.

Thanks again in advance.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This should be an obvious given fact, but I'll throw it out anyway.

Come here, and you'll have to have lots of money to support yourself from landing to first paycheck. That's hard to judge how long, but you have to be safe, so plan on 2-4 months. A lot depends on the time of year you come, and on what your qualifications are, how you interview, and what type of job you are willing to accept.

Stay in your home country, and you face far fewer opportunities. Not that many places recruit by going abroad to your home country. Those that do have a limited number of countries where they send people, have their own schedule (some interview year round, but not all do), and you will still have to pay to attend the interviews (1-3 days long). So, if you live in Canada or the U.S., you may have to travel a long distance for that, and pay for it.

These are all facts that have been around for decades. Now, what are the advantages of taking a rural vs. urban position? Well, it may also depend on just how rural some are. I live in a city of about 150,000; my wife considers it a hick town. Hey, with only one department store, what can you say? You might find bigger or smaller places that are still considered rural. Also, how far you are from an urban city will vary, but most of the time transportation here is good. You just have to think about how often you will need to "get out" or how often you will even have the time to do so! There is a lot to be learned in either environment, so really think hard about why you don't want to be in a rural place. Do those reasons really outweigh the chance to fly thousands of miles from your home to start an adventure (as some see it), or to get your feet wet in a new career, or to explore a new culture? Seriously think about it.

Lots of entertainment in cities, yeah, but what do you really need/want/have time for when you start a new job in a foreign land?
Lots more opportunities to be immersed in Japanese language if you live in a rural place, yes, but you can still learn the language, meet people, and explore the culture in the city. (Big cities are inherently alike, too, with skyscrapers, shops, bars, museums, sporting events, etc., so bear in mind that Tokyo or Osaka may not appear outwardly that different from New York or London.)

You should keep in mind that you are coming here to do a job, not be paid to frolic, too. Too many people have that frame of mind. I won't harp on this, but it's a sad truth for some people.
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OneJoelFifty



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

inuzuki8605 wrote:
OneJoelFifty wrote:

Are you suggesting taking a job in an area you don't want to live in, just so you can get a visa and start looking elsewhere? I wouldn't recommend that at all. .


I live in America and I've been looking for work in Japan. Honestly, the best teaching jobs are only offered to people that already live in Japan (according to gaijinpot.com) and they will sponsor another visa for you if you are hired. It actually might be a good idea for him to bite the bullet and endure a year that may not be to his liking so he can explore the better jobs that are available to him once he gets there.

More and more, I'm thinking that that might be the best choice if there is nothing else opening up.( the season for hiring is closing soon)

Mind you, I'm not saying, in any way, to leave them high and dry in the middle of the school year. I would finish it and then move to a better place when my contract is done. (although I don't know how long Tim_Watts wants to stay in Japan. If it's just a year then what I said might not apply here.)


Yes, it sounded to me like the advice was to accept a position with the intention of leaving ASAP once in Japan with visa in hand.

If I was him I'd also take what he can get, I think it would be a good experience regardless. Another thing that I've gathered from talking to different people is that the larger the city, the more foreigners the students have seen, the less 'special' you're likely to be. Most of the people I've met that love their schools and students have worked in smaller cities or communities where they are well-respected. A lot of the people I've met that work in Tokyo have more troublesome students.

Of course there might be people around here that have a different experience.
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