Job Discussion Forums

[Otterman Ollie]

Well what can I say? Thank goodness Turkey is still outside Europe! But who wants to be in there anyway?

[bulgogiboy]

[spanglish]

There are lots of high school jobs that can be landed with a bit of networking, luck and qualifications. Same for university jobs, just tougher to get a visa and a full time contract. Lots of people start at IH where it's easy to get hired (and they'll get you a work visa). Pay is like $1000/month for 16 contact hours/week, which will leave you with a bit of extra time for privates.

Kidnapping and crime...well, do a bit of research. I'd recommend searching the old poorbuthappy forum and signing up for colombia vanilla forums.

[sharter]

Ok...that's enough, some comments from way out of left field on this thread. I haven't posted for a week as I've been in the desert where I work direct hire for an oil company on a six and three rotation. I have 15 years experience and am well qualified. I probably earn more than 99% of the people on this forum. I had to go to the Gulf and Libya to earn it. Working with people of that religion has made me a bigot...sorry but true and that's the price I've paid. I've got plenty of money in the bank though.

John Slat and Denise have spent loads of time in the Gulf as have I. Gulf jobs are rarely careers as it's not like you'll go very far up that ladder. Yep, you get your wonga but that's it. I'm sure some have done well and with help from the folks they've bought houses etc etc. Most older posters will have a house.....20 years in Saudi is what it took eh John?

People assumed that I was some newbie with no qualifications and that is simply not the case. What is the case, if you care to browse the net and hunt job offers in Europe is that the dosh is krap...with an MA or without one 'DOS central London 25,000 GBP', 'University Lecturer Poland 600 Euros' and so on and so on. Yep my post was a bit of a rant, but jobs in Europe simply don't pay enough unless you get a golden job with the EU or do other stuff.

I stand by what I said and my advice to any newbie would be something like....let me see......do it for a year or two and then do something which offers a more secure future. EFL ain't sensible.

How many of the folks on this board who have the house and hectares have a functional family life? How many have had booze problems? How many can honestly say that EFL is a regulated profession taken seriously by the academic world outside EFL? In fact, how many have houses that mum and dad didn't help them buy? In Poland where I spent the 90's the EFL teachers with houses/flats had them bought as wedding presents mostly.

I have a son who wants for nothing, lost a flat to divorce but am just about to buy another, so life ain't bad, but it wasn't worth the ag of working with the bearded folk of the desert. Nothing is worth that....and nearly every teacher I know in Europe is still broke and non of them are unqualified or inexperienced.

[johnslat]

Dear sharter,

"Most older posters will have a house.....20 years in Saudi is what it took eh John?"

Not only the house, but a car and financial security for the rest of my life (which, since I'm almost 68, may not be all that much longer.) In addition, I put one friend through medical school (which is rather expensive) and helped another get an Masters in archeology. But hey- it was only 19 years.
And during the holidays in those 19 years I got to see just about every place in Europe, Africa, and southeast Asia that was on my "bucket list" (without having to pay for the plane tickets.)
What's more, I must have been pretty lucky in my "bearded folk of the desert" since not only do I have fond memories of almost all of them, I'm still communicating with many (thank you, facebook) almost eight years after I left the Kingdom.

"How many can honestly say that EFL is a regulated profession taken seriously by the academic world outside EFL?"

I couldn't care less about the opinion of "the academic world outside of EFL.." My opinion of a lot of the members of that academic world really shouldn't be written on a public forum. What I do know is that I took it very seriously (and still do) and have always tried to do a thoroughly professional job. I also had a lot of colleagues who did likewise.


Now, do I think that my experience should be a template for everyone else? Of course not. But it's not uncommon, I know, for people in any field of work to generalize their unique experiences and their reactions to everyone else in that field or thinking of entering it.

So, "do it for a year or two" or make it a career - that's a choice that the newbie has to make on his/her own. What will be at the end of whichever one of those paths he/she takes, well, no one can predict that with certainty.

Regards,
John

[Cyburbian]

With all due respect to folks in EFL who have bought real estate, such purchases are pretty much common fare in most other professions...even with the tighter mortgage regulations. Close to 69% of Canadians are homeowners.

I believe the fact that you have property from an EFL career says much to your strong ability and talent to make something out of EFL, but I would argue that you are by far a small, small minority of total EFL instructors world-wide. You definitely indicate what is possible in an EFL career, but are more anecdotal examples rather than evidence of a larger trend. You are on the far right side of the normal curve.

[HLJHLJ]

[johnslat]

Dear Cyburbian.

You may well be right - but aren't you also relying on "anecdotal examples"
(i.e. those from your own experience?)

Regards,
John

[steviok85]

After lacking interest and being quite lazy in my first year's teaching in Poland, I came back four years later to try and recorrect my past mistakes. Owing to my efforts, I think I have achieved that and have built up some connections and a fairly decent reputation for myself. One of the connections asked me to deliver 20 lessons in a teacher training centre which he manages.
Some of the people who are knocking the wages on the Poland forum are either drinking their wages up the wall or just spending mindlessly. I am not pocketing a fantastic wage from my school, but I still save most of my monthly wage because I have tried to enhance my reputation outside of school and can live off 'other projects'. Even if I did not have other things going on, I would still do ok, still be able to take the girlfriend out from time to time, take the odd trip etc. I don't go out and buy 1000zl winter jackets, nor drink and smoke. This makes a difference.
What you put in is, generally, what you get out. I have met far too many native speakers who expect private lessons to fall into their laps because they are - native speakers.
All in all, I think there is a living wage to be found in Poland - at least if you live outside the big four or five cities.

[johnslat]

Dear


"With all due respect to folks in EFL who have bought real estate, such purchases are pretty much common fare in most other professions...even with the tighter mortgage regulations. Close to 69% of Canadians are homeowners."

Oh, one other point - of that 69% how many of them own their homes outright and how many are sending the bank a fat mortgage payment every month?

Regards,
John

[artemisia]

Okay, no-one should be a TEFL teacher - especially not anyone living in Europe. It shouldn't and doesn't exist as a real profession. Got the message, thanks. Now, back to the classroom...

[mozzar]

The reason EFL has such a bad rep is that it's mostly done as an early twenties job before a lot of teachers start a 'real career.' It's also extremely easy to get into as a job, but for anyone with a bit of ambition who's willing to get the qualifications, make the right moves and treat it as a serious job it's much easier as the competition is generally pretty weak.

I know anecdotal stories of successes and failures, but the difference between the two have been that the successes had the ambition and could have likely taken another career and done well, whereas the failures saw the bottom rung as the highest they could get with no intention of improvement. I've yet to meet anyone who has struggled for years to advance (get the right experience, qualifications, etc.) in ELT and is still on the entry level jobs.

[jonniboy]

The OP is right up to a point. I make a pretty decent living teaching but the first few years were a struggle and I frequently thought about jacking it in and doing something else. Thankfully I stuck at it.

As others have pointed out there are vast differences between markets in European countries. I live in a less popular market and partly due to lack of competition, I've found it much easier to make a go of it here than down in southern Europe. I also don't teach kids, ever. There's no need. Generally teachers I know that have worked in the more popular markets like Spain and Italy have found it heavier going but that's not to say that someone that goes there and sticks it out won't make it, it's just, in my humble opinion, a bit harder than other markets.

Generally the teachers I've met who were broke were those that bounced around various mediterranean countries rarely staying more than a year in one place. That's not a recipe for success in any field and anyone who does that is unlikely to be considered for higher paying jobs or make the contacts necessary to find more lucrative positions.

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I see no difference between EFL (ELL, ESL) and any other industry: Work hard, take advantage of opportunities, get ongoing qualifications, take your lumps (hopefully only at the beginning) and persevere, and you have an excellent chance of getting successful. And there are many out there who are successful, not only professionally, but financially and in their personal lives. For example, I have a family, own property (outright), travel a couple/few times a year, and make a tidy living here in Russia, and all I did was follow the path above.

If one doesn't like the world of EFL (etc), then get out of it. Why sit on a forum and try to convince people it's a dead-end? Especially when there are so many who have made it good?

Sometimes I just don't understand people.

[Cyburbian]