Job Discussion Forums

[bulgogiboy]

Very interesting. According to this study, Turks are even more collectivist than Iranians, Libyans and Saudi Arabians. Surprising!

[billy orr]

I would have thought that with all these things it is probably better to be in the middle of the scale than having a high or low score. An excess of individualism leads to many social problems, and too much social distance or masculinity are hardly virtues. Turkey is around or just below the middle in most of the scales, apart from being high on uncertainty avoidance, which reminds us of how our students cling to 'grammar' rather than looking at language more flexibly.

But as it says on the website...

'The drawbacks of applying the Hofstede Model

The Hofstede Model of Cultural Dimensions can be of great use when it comes to analyzing a country�s culture. There are however a few things one has to keep in mind.... etc'!

[spiral78]

Oh, there have been criticisms of Hofstede over the years, of course. And I wouldn't claim that any of this is set in stone - but in my experience it's worthwhile as a general pattern indicator.

Also, I wouldn't interpret any of this as negative - there are obviously benefits to a greater degree of collectivism, just as there are some benefits to being more individualistic. It's not a clear good/bad issue.

[lechatnoir]

Question about encountering offensive cultural stereotypes:

How does a teacher go about not offending a Turkish student by correcting a student that India is not all dirty, that people don't really live with rats and that it's not not all filled with poor people?

" I heard that people live with rats in India" "Indians have bad dancing" "Chinese eat bugs" can really grate on nerves. I know cultural sensitivity is lacking and I'm looking for an approach that shows Turks that these kinds of stereotypes based on movies are atrocious? I know Turks are super sensitive, so how does a teacher go about correcting these notions without offending Turks? They're quite adamant about their viewpoints.

[bulgogiboy]

[spiral78]

How does a teacher go about not offending a Turkish student by correcting a student that India is not all dirty, that people don't really live with rats and that it's not not all filled with poor people?

" I heard that people live with rats in India" "Indians have bad dancing" "Chinese eat bugs" can really grate on nerves. I know cultural sensitivity is lacking and I'm looking for an approach that shows Turks that these kinds of stereotypes based on movies are atrocious? I know Turks are super sensitive, so how does a teacher go about correcting these notions without offending Turks? They're quite adamant about their viewpoints.

Why worry about changing their viewpoints? It's not necessarily up to the language teacher to also teach them about the world.
In my 13+ years teaching, I've heard many, many worldviews expressed by student with which I don't agree.

The European university where I taught for some time had a policy of including awareness of cultural diversity in its curriculum. This didn't include 'changing' the minds of our students, but we did discuss cultural differences in neutral ways. Students were (in structured situations that had pedagogical purposes) encouraged to express their ideas and opinions - without anyone's needing to counter their views. Our Saudi students often defended gender stereotypes that we certainly didn't agree with - but they're entitled to their viewpoints and we commented only on the linguistic aspects of their speech or writing on the topic.

I say, let them have their prejudices. Focus on the language they use to express them. It's highly unlikely that you really can make any difference to their worldviews - they have an entire society all the way down to family and fellow students to support their ideas. Losing battle.

If you get really tired of it, one idea to shake them up a bit - introduce the concept of standard debate: intro, three or four main points to support, a conclusion. Give pairs of students opposing ideas (smoking should/should not be banned in public places, governments should/not limit the numbers of children families can have, private gun ownership should/not be banned, etc, etc). Have the pairs prepare together and deliver the arguments for BOTH sides - not just the one they agree with. Forces them to focus on language rather than opinions for a while.

[scot47]

Are you a missionary or an English teacher ? Who are you to challenge their thoughts about anything ? Just teach them English !

You want to turn everyone in the World the world into PC Californians ? ( or worse - English Liberals !)

[cartago]

Have you seen the negro cookies?

[lechatnoir]

Thanks all! I stand corrected. You're right- I guess I should just keep my mouth shut. And also, smile and nod.

[spiral78]

What else can I do?

Honestly, pretty much nothing. I'm not dissing you - it's really just beyond what we can effectively do as teachers. Hopefully you'll find some peace with it...most of the world is woefully un-PC.

[artemisia]

I've been following your progress with some interest. I must say I didn't much enjoy my admittedly limited experience with Turkish students.

Just a suggestion; "no, you mustn't say that" is the sort of statement probably best avoided in the adult classroom. When dealing with something that arises that is of an offensive nature you can always, briefly, deal with it in a detached manner. E.g. "That's a word many find extremely offensive and if you're travelling abroad, it's a good idea to be really careful about using such words. In some countries, it's not only likely people will think it's rude but you may also find yourself in some serious trouble if you speak like this".

It doesn't hurt to let students know this; you probably are doing them a favour if they plan to travel (unless you're not too sorry about the idea of them going abroad and running the risk of getting their heads kicked in!). They sound quite young and probably a bit dumb. Maybe they're trying to impress you and sound 'hip' with their knowledge of English 'slang' and Amy Winehouse (British singer)?

BTW, I certainly wouldn't "nod and smile" if it were me (though I think you were joking), I'd just skirt around things.

[lechatnoir]

I'm having a tough time myself with Turkish students- as you could probably tell. As for the Amy Winehouse commenter, the man was in his forties and a wealthy pastry shop owner. Therefore, I cannot reprimand him (quite the adult) but I believe he knew that the word was offensive. He nodded, laughing saying "it's slang". He also has mentioned that he loves to travel through Europe by motorbike in summers. You'd think that he knew better manners, since he's well-traveled.

Sometimes, I don't know whether to get angry or to just walk away from the classroom. However, as previous posters have commented, I'm there just to teach language. I'm just here for a limited time and I hope that I'll have better experiences in future teaching opportunities.

[billy orr]

I really sympathise with how you are feeling, chat noir, but I do think things are not as bad as they look. You seem to be extremely alienated from the host culture, and that is a pity. Of course, I don�t know your students, but I would expect them to value you enormously as a teacher, and as a person, and to enjoy contact with you. I bet if they ever heard a third person criticise or complain about you they would be totally on your side, they are usually incredibly loyal.

I suspect there may be some aspects of the discourse that you may be misinterpreting. One feature is that disagreement is strongly dispreferred. In the incident that you described in your original post, other students in the class would be unlikely to express disapproval and disagree with the opinion expressed by the student. You may be interpreting silence on the part of the other students as agreement with him, but that should not be assumed. I would expect most students, particularly the female ones, to be very much on your side, resenting the opinion expressed, but not feeling ready to express their view. These are learners of the English language, not fully competent users after all.

I don�t think you should just nod and smile when you hear language that offends you. I know how hard it is in that kind of situation, but keeping calm will achieve results. As for the use of the n word, it is extremely offensive and should not be used in any classroom. Teaching our students this fact is part of our job, it is about pragmatic competence. The word is just as offensive in Turkey as anywhere else in the world, and students need to know this. I would not cite practices in other countries as the reason why the n word should not be used, as then you will be juxtaposing your culture with his. I would insist that the use of the word is offensive per se. But I would leave it at that, without attempting to apply any sanction.

[bulgogiboy]

[spiral78]

I can second the notion that Western Europeans aren't necessarily very PC as regards race, either. Their prejudices vary a bit, though.... I know places where Turks would be (and are) regarded with deep suspicion (gypsies???) and black people are generally accepted and don't garner much overt interest by uneducated locals.