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Timer
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Location: China
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 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:08 am Post subject: Fly to China on tourist visa, wait 4 weeks for z visa |
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Sorry if this has been asked already; the search function seems to be broken (and has been broken for a few days now).
I've been applying for jobs and some of them seem to want me to come to China on a tourist visa and once in China I then apply for a Z visa. I'm not sure what they expect me to do for 4 weeks while it's being processed but I get the feeling they will want me to start working. Working on a tourist visa is illegal as far as I know so I am a bit worried.
Applying from my own country is going to take the same amount of time and I won't be sitting around wasting money while the visa is processed.
Is this a common thing? I've only ever worked in China once and everything was arranged before I left my home country. |
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mat chen
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 494
Location: xiangtan hunan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| They will have you teach for a month and if they are satisfied you will go to Hong Kong and get your Z visa. Things have tightened here for everyone. Chinese just don't know who is a good teacher and who isn't. They let the customer decide. It's a win win for them. |
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Timer
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| mat chen wrote: |
| They will have you teach for a month and if they are satisfied you will go to Hong Kong and get your Z visa. Things have tightened here for everyone. Chinese just don't know who is a good teacher and who isn't. They let the customer decide. It's a win win for them. |
Isn't that illegal though? The companies who have mentioned it to me are supposedly run by foreigners who should know better (well, in theory). |
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Mister Al
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 840
Location: In there
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Illegal or not it's not an uncommon business practice here. I did it and got legalised quickly, many moons ago. It's up to you whether you trust the company to deliver the goods, at their own expense. Some do, some don't. |
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desertdust
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Make sure you line up a few different jobs in the same city so that if one doesn't work out, you can move to the other. |
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xzbakbook
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| It is illegal . And you are taking the chance they won't take you. Then you are out airfare and a job and a place to live. And you cannot go to anyone for help because you are there illegally. Whether or not it is common is secondary. |
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Timer
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| xzbakbook wrote: |
| And you are taking the chance they won't take you. Then you are out airfare and a job and a place to live. And you cannot go to anyone for help because you are there illegally. |
This is my main concern really. I understand that some schools have had bad runs with deadbeat foreigners but this isn't the way to weed them out. I'm fine with a probation month or whatever but I'm not going to pay for a plane ticket and handle all the other hassles just to be left out in the cold for whatever reason. |
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rottenflesh
Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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There are apparently "some" schools with strong connections that might be able to convert your L visa to a residence permit once you arrive here, but again the problem is that you DON'T really know how well-connected the schools are.
I have had recruiters literally lie in my face about converting L visas to residence permits (hoping they will get their commission from the school as soon as I come to the country). After pressing them on this issue, they changed their story to how I will have to go to Hong Kong every 3 months. Finally, the recruiter either blow you off or simply state that you get 1-2 year experience in the country - THEN apply for a visa legally.
DO NOT come here on a tourist visa and expect it to be converted to a residence permit - the government has recently become more strict in this (although it IS slightly possible - but at the risk of leaving your country, buying your ticket, risk of being deported from the country, etc - I really DON'T think it is worth it).
There are tons of threads on this forum of how teachers were promised that everything was taken care of - but it wasn't and how the schools used this to threaten them (you are working illegally so you better listen to what we say or we're going to call the police). Often times, the teacher has to simply make a run for it. Read the massive Z-visa sticky thread on top of this forum page.
Continue searching for jobs and contact schools directly to get your Z-Visa (often better than random Chinese recruiters/scammers). |
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Galileo
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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I was recently told by a recruiter in an e-mail:
"It requires about 50 working days to get the working visa. I suggest you come to China with a tourist visa first, then I will arrange you to Hong Kong to apply the working visa. This way will save you much time and money."
So I should risk working nearly two months illegally? And how is this going to save me money? |
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Timer
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Galileo wrote: |
I was recently told by a recruiter in an e-mail:
"It requires about 50 working days to get the working visa. I suggest you come to China with a tourist visa first, then I will arrange you to Hong Kong to apply the working visa. This way will save you much time and money."
So I should risk working nearly two months illegally? And how is this going to save me money? |
The Chinese embassy in your country can probably do it quicker than 50 working days.
As for saving money, it may cost less doing it in HK but I can't imagine it being a large amount. Here in Australia it costs about $50 which really isn't much. |
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Galileo
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| Can you legally teach on an F visa instead of a Z visa? A recruiter is telling me an F visa will be arranged for me. My research tells me that a Z visa is a work visa and an F visa is a business visa. |
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rottenflesh
Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Galileo wrote: |
| Can you legally teach on an F visa instead of a Z visa? A recruiter is telling me an F visa will be arranged for me. My research tells me that a Z visa is a work visa and an F visa is a business visa. |
To work legally, you need a work permit (FEC I believe).
A Z-Visa allows you to legally enter China with the intention of working there and is valid for a month. Once you enter the country, your school is supposed to convert it into a working permit.
A F visa is simply a business visa - nothing to do with employment. The recruiter is simply lying to your face. I'd avoid him/her. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Timer wrote: |
| mat chen wrote: |
| They will have you teach for a month and if they are satisfied you will go to Hong Kong and get your Z visa. Things have tightened here for everyone. Chinese just don't know who is a good teacher and who isn't. They let the customer decide. It's a win win for them. |
Isn't that illegal though? |
Of course it is. But that is how China works. Back at home, jaywalking and littering is illegal, but seriously how many people get fined for throwing cig butts on the ground or for crossing a street at the wrong place that is not busy?
China is lax in most of it's laws; police do not enforce laws unless someone pays them to do it, or orders them to do it. They have better things to do, like try to make money. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| China is lax in most of it's laws; police do not enforce laws unless someone pays them to do it, or orders them to do it. They have better things to do, like try to make money. |
But the different provinces and cities go through bouts of enforcing various laws which might have been ignored previously. I remember when I was teaching in Xi'an, it used to be fine to walk around without your passport, and then for a period of 4 months it suddenly wasn't. If stopped without your passport the police would take you home to verify that you had the passport & valid visa to stay in China.
Sure, the chance of being on the receiving end of such an initiative are slim, but as foreigner we kinda stick out, and its easy to be targeted. Do you really want to run such a risk when its easily avoidable?
Z Visa application in Ireland costs �40 and took essentially a week to process. Entirely pain free. The only thing that took time was the medical test (required by my university) and the invitation letter itself. And lets face it, any trustworthy school should be able to go through the process to send an invitation letter that can pass an Embassy inspection. |
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Timer
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
Of course it is. But that is how China works. Back at home, jaywalking and littering is illegal, but seriously how many people get fined for throwing cig butts on the ground or for crossing a street at the wrong place that is not busy?
China is lax in most of it's laws; police do not enforce laws unless someone pays them to do it, or orders them to do it. They have better things to do, like try to make money. |
Jaywalking and littering don't quite compare to working in another country illegally. Sure, the cops may be lazy but I don't want to be involved when their superiors give them a kick in the bum. I'd much rather face verbal abuse or a fine for jaywalking than face whatever fun stuff is in store for illegal foreign devils. |
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