Job Discussion Forums

Jbhughes · Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Posts: 254

I kind of agree with some of the posters regarding the potential loss without face to face contact.

I did my CELTA last year and found the level of support both from my tutor and my fellow trainees vital in passing the course, the other trainees made similar comments at the end of the course. However, I haven't studied a distance course so clearly can't compare.

Also, the whole experience can be a little microcosm of working and living abroad with other foreigners, especially if you do your course in a new country. My course-mates and I found we had to balance a lot of different, often conflicting, aspects when doing a CELTA in this way both within the classroom and out. I think for newbies, this can prepare you quite well for moving to a strange new country and starting your career.

Perhaps people will find me a bit weak for saying this, but I have to say I found -and still think- that the CELTA is too intensive and that this in itself is detrimental to learning. To clarify, I did the CELTA in 4 weeks - as far as I'm aware this is standard?

By the end of second week, I had stopped thinking about what I was learning from each input session and focusing solely on 'what does the tutor want me to display in my lessons from this session?' Young learners input session? My head was in the next day's assessed lesson. Course planning session? I can't remember a thing and my notes say 'look this up after CELTA.'

It's this area where I can see the distance course being really beneficial - being able to learn the course content without deadlines and assessed lessons looming large the next day is definitely an option I would've liked at least - surely I'm not the only one? I note that there's a part-time CELTA course already available, perhaps it solves this issue.

Finally, it seems to me that the industry is crying out for an internationally recognised course where there are no questions regarding accreditation. Whenever the subject of online TESOL courses comes up on Dave's it seems to me that anything less than a master's is totally slated! I have to respectfully disagree with travelNteach - I really can't see the University of Cambridge 'brand' going anywhere. This will just be another industry standard for them. At the moment should one choose a CELTA(/Trinity/SIT) or a generic 120hour/6hour observed TESOL cert given the choice? Once the distance CELTA comes out, should one choose a distance CELTA or a generic 120hour online TESOL cert (with at best unrecognised credentials) given the choice?

Honestly though, as someone who does hold an onsite CELTA, I do hope that the distance CELTA specifies on the Cert itself that it's a distance one.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I think you've raised some very useful points, and I'd like to just clarify two of them from my (oldbie) perspective:

Perhaps people will find me a bit weak for saying this, but I have to say I found -and still think- that the CELTA is too intensive and that this in itself is detrimental to learning. To clarify, I did the CELTA in 4 weeks - as far as I'm aware this is standard?

I along with many others actually think that 5 weeks would be an ideal time frame for an intensive introductory course - giving trainees more time to absorb and consolidate important items. However, it's usually a matter of scheduling difficulties - adding a week makes a course difficult to organise in terms of housing, and obviously adds costs. As the price of onsite courses is essentially at the top of the practical scale already, most course providers are loath to add costs in the form of another week. Overall, the rationale is that most trainees make it through, so it's generally working 'ok.'

Whenever the subject of online TESOL courses comes up on Dave's it seems to me that anything less than a master's is totally slated!

I don't think this is so...a basic TEFL/TESL course is definitely the way to get started. If a newbie teacher finds that he/she likes the job and wants to develop it into a career, an MA MAY BE an important step later, depending whether the teacher wants to work in a university situation or as a DOS or other. However, it's not advisable to gain postgrad degrees without earlier experience in the field - without experience to tie theory to, the MA study is, well, too theoretical to be optimally meaningful.

Please don't think that anyone here sneers at certified teachers without related MA - not at all. It's just that many of us regulars have been around a long time, have careers in ELT, and now have the degrees - and know how important it can be for career teachers. However, an MA is not the only route to 'career' in this field (though it may be the most common - I'm not sure).

I know teachers with DELTAs who work as DOS' and teacher trainers, and I know some very fine teachers with nothing more official than a CELTA, whose experience, energy, and sheer talent for the job gets them where they want to go - though that probably won't work for university or international school jobs. Speaking of which, don't discount the certified classroom teacher who converts to international school positions abroad.

It's perfectly respectable NOT to have the MAs - they aren't needed at all for most of the teaching jobs in the world. As for the forum, I think that experience is valued here, regardless of quals.

Jbhughes · Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Posts: 254

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

ONLINE course less than an online Master's is usually slated.

Hmmm. It's a fair question.

There have been earlier posts that talked about why online 'starter' cert courses are not considered sufficient in most cases - though a distance/blended MA is generally considered fine.

There's a pretty big distinction in just getting started, and doing a postgrad degree after you've got a few years of experience. Here's the earlier thread: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=86796

It's got a good discussion of the issue from all sides, I think.

Isla Guapa · Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject:

Jbhughes · Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Posts: 254

Yeah, you're welcome mate.

I've always been interested in the differences in American and British when I meet Americans (no idea where you're from Isla).

My sts sometimes use their own version of English too, I'm less enthused by this - 'mill', is not a calcium-packed drink, 'rye' is not the staple diet of most Asians, 'Jew' is not a fruit-derived drink and 'Kay' is not the thing you blow out your candles off on your birthday. Very Happy

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Hmmm, omitting both sibilants and stop sounds at the ends of words. Annoying reductions! Makes sense only in context.

Isla Guapa · Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject:

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

I remember reading something about the online CELTA, and I think they are not going to mark the certificate, or label it in a way different to the normal CELTA. They are suggesting it will offer exactly the same training, and other than method of delivery, will be identical to the full on-site course.

The convenience of it is bound to appeal, but I dont believe for one second it will provide the same training. As mentioned, one of the great things about doing the course on-site was watching other trainees teach, this was over and above the scheduled observations.

Watching teachers teach on DVDs is not the same IMO...and because you only view it from the perspective of the cameraman, you also miss out on being able to observe the students as closely. Also an interesting task which DVDs may not be able to offer, or offer as well.

Final point, again already mentioned. The input sessions were also a good time for observation. It was very informative to actually watch how the tutors handled the class (during input sessions), set schemata, issued instructions and checked instructions. This was all done for trainees to observe, and learn from.

As a sidenote, I am studying Chinese on a blended learning course from the Open University. They send us CDs, we have special software for online tutorials and sessions, and there is interactive software for recording conversations, measuring tones (Chinese is a tonal language) etc. BUT ... despite all this technology, I feel the course would be 10 times better if I was doing it in a classroom and working face to face with other students and teachers.

Blended learning offers advantages in delivery, but my experience suggests to me, that blended learning will always fall short of, of pale in comparison to face to face courses.

If the online CELTA takes off, and Trinity etc follow suit (both of which are likely), I think many employers will start to look at DELTA/MA Tesol as benchmark qualifications.