Job Discussion Forums

Kurochan · Joined: 01 Mar 2003 Posts: 944 Location: China

Liveable? Too hot?

I'm thinking of applying for a job there, but I've never visited it. Does anyone have any information, especially in terms of how friendly people are, if it is safe, and if it is easy to get around?

Thanks!

dakelei · Joined: 17 May 2009 Posts: 351 Location: USA

I lived there for years and now live in a city pretty close to there. Shantou has its good and bad aspects, like every other city in China. It's hot from May until October but the weather is very pleasant during the winter. The locals are a tad, um, "clannish" and seem to mistrust, fear, hate, etc anyone who isn't a local person. They particularly despise folks from Hunan and Jiangxi. The locals speak a language that is unintelligible to anyone not from the immediate area and are quite proud of this. They speak Mandarin only when they absolutely have to and then badly. (Some older folks can't speak it at all.) I'll freely admit I'm painting with a broad brush here but in general the local men are loathsome and and the women great. By "men" I mean those around my age (50) give or take. The younger guys are better. Even by Chinese standards the local culture is extremely "conservative" and blatantly sexist. The local government is notoriously corrupt and inept. It was one of China's original "Special Economic Zones" but never achieved the level of success the other ones did mostly because local leaders were too busy lining their own pockets. There is a lot of good food to be had, relatively cheaply. It's easy to get around by bicycle. When I first arrived there in 2001 it was insanely easy to find work but it seems there are more and more foreigners there now. The police are pretty lax about things like visas, if you don't make any trouble, so it's a good place for those not-quite-legal to teach, if you know what I mean. There's a Canadian mother and son duo running their own school in the city and I know for an absolute fact neither went to uni so I'm not quite sure how they pull it off legally but they do. (Well, I DO know. The son is married to a local girl who has some guanxi.) It's not a bad place at all, really, and has a decent nightlife if you're into that sort of thing.

One word of caution: When asking about jobs there make sure to ask if it's in the CITY of Shantou or the COUNTY. Some schools advertise as being in "Shantou" and really aren't. They're out in the country. There's one guy in particular who always seems to be looking for people and it turns out his school is really in an outlying area that is not really "Shantou" at all.

dakelei · Joined: 17 May 2009 Posts: 351 Location: USA

I lived there for years and now live in a city pretty close to there. Shantou has its good and bad aspects, like every other city in China. It's hot from May until October but the weather is very pleasant during the winter. The locals are a tad, um, "clannish" and seem to mistrust, fear, hate, etc anyone who isn't a local person. They particularly despise folks from Hunan and Jiangxi. The locals speak a language that is unintelligible to anyone not from the immediate area and are quite proud of this. They speak Mandarin only when they absolutely have to and then badly. (Some older folks can't speak it at all.) I'll freely admit I'm painting with a broad brush here but in general the local men are loathsome and and the women great. By "men" I mean those around my age (50) give or take. The younger guys are better. Even by Chinese standards the local culture is extremely "conservative" and blatantly sexist. The local government is notoriously corrupt and inept. It was one of China's original "Special Economic Zones" but never achieved the level of success the other ones did mostly because local leaders were too busy lining their own pockets. There is a lot of good food to be had, relatively cheaply. It's easy to get around by bicycle. When I first arrived there in 2001 it was insanely easy to find work but it seems there are more and more foreigners there now. The police are pretty lax about things like visas, if you don't make any trouble, so it's a good place for those not-quite-legal to teach, if you know what I mean. There's a Canadian mother and son duo running their own school in the city and I know for an absolute fact neither went to uni so I'm not quite sure how they pull it off legally but they do. (Well, I DO know. The son is married to a local girl who has some guanxi.) It's not a bad place at all, really, and has a decent nightlife if you're into that sort of thing.

One word of caution: When asking about jobs there make sure to ask if it's in the CITY of Shantou or the COUNTY. Some schools advertise as being in "Shantou" and really aren't. They're out in the country. There's one guy in particular who always seems to be looking for people and it turns out his school is really in an outlying area that is not really "Shantou" at all.

dakelei · Joined: 17 May 2009 Posts: 351 Location: USA

I lived there for years and now live in a city pretty close to there. Shantou has its good and bad aspects, like every other city in China. It's hot from May until October but the weather is very pleasant during the winter. The locals are a tad, um, "clannish" and seem to mistrust, fear, hate, etc anyone who isn't a local person. They particularly despise folks from Hunan and Jiangxi. The locals speak a language that is unintelligible to anyone not from the immediate area and are quite proud of this. They speak Mandarin only when they absolutely have to and then badly. (Some older folks can't speak it at all.) I'll freely admit I'm painting with a broad brush here but in general the local men are loathsome and and the women great. By "men" I mean those around my age (50) give or take. The younger guys are better. Even by Chinese standards the local culture is extremely "conservative" and blatantly sexist. The local government is notoriously corrupt and inept. It was one of China's original "Special Economic Zones" but never achieved the level of success the other ones did mostly because local leaders were too busy lining their own pockets. There is a lot of good food to be had, relatively cheaply. It's easy to get around by bicycle. When I first arrived there in 2001 it was insanely easy to find work but it seems there are more and more foreigners there now. The police are pretty lax about things like visas, if you don't make any trouble, so it's a good place for those not-quite-legal to teach, if you know what I mean. There's a Canadian mother and son duo running their own school in the city and I know for an absolute fact neither went to uni so I'm not quite sure how they pull it off legally but they do. (Well, I DO know. The son is married to a local girl who has some guanxi.) It's not a bad place at all, really, and has a decent nightlife if you're into that sort of thing.

One word of caution: When asking about jobs there make sure to ask if it's in the CITY of Shantou or the COUNTY. Some schools advertise as being in "Shantou" and really aren't. They're out in the country. There's one guy in particular who always seems to be looking for people and it turns out his school is really in an outlying area that is not really "Shantou" at all.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

Wow, you really have a lot to say about the place - - so much that you posted it 3X!!! Laughing

xiaolongbaolaoxi · Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 126

In my experience in Guandong, there were a serious amount of Hunan immigrants who moved for jobs/income [my wife was shocked that she almost always spoke in Mandarin with cabbies and shopkeepers instead of the Cantonese she grew up with]. For the most part, I found the Hunan immigrants more open socially and easier to understand in terms of accent (because almost everyone had the same basic pronunciation, so I heard the same thing all the time), but as the previous poster has mentioned [three times Smile

] there is big disconnect between some of the Guandong locals and Hunan immigrants. As to Jiangxi, I never really say an issue, but I can only remember two students who were from there.

Despite all of the stereotypes about various groups in China, I felt that these same immigrants who were the most open socially were also the most money-driven, in a bad way. As in, profit was everything, which says a lot considering I was in Guandong.

Once you are aware that there are some major differences/rivalries between major groups, it does seem to make things easier in terms of filtering various comments in terms of office politics. If you a re dealing with one teacher from one area about another teacher from another area trying to schedule/plan/get the info you need/all those other impossible things, it is nice to know that you are getting information that may be highly selectively conveyed. Watching CTs from the same basic area pass on info that they claim to not know to CTs from another area is a good way to see the faultlines (and a good reason to not let people know you understand the language unless you are truly fluent.)

What I am trying to say is... pay attention to where your Chinese colleagues are from, particularly if they say they are from [The Chiense version of "I was born in"] in one place but lived somewhere very far from there... it could be a sign that their family was "reeducated" and that dramatically affected their outlook. One teacher was amazing with children and native English speakers, but was clearly ostracized because it was clear that his family had been very recently reeducated.

Also, if you have colleagues from Beijing, Shanghai, or Hong Kong, watch how they are treated... they are put on a seriously high social pedestal simply for being from there.

End of sermon.

Aloha,

XLB

PS: Gansu was very looked-down upon, but I found that those students and teachers were the most driven, capable, and adaptable ones I met.

dakelei · Joined: 17 May 2009 Posts: 351 Location: USA

My net connection was screwing up and when I hit "submit" it appeared nothing was happening and I guess I hit it twice more. I didn't mean to post the same thing 3 times. Sorry 'bout that.

Beloved · Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Posts: 5 Location: USA

I am going to be teaching in Shantou in 3 weeks does not really sound like too bad of a place from these posts hope all goes well!

GreatApe · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:54 am Post subject:

Any more information from anyone on Shantou?

Great information from dakelei. Thanks!

Any update from Beloved?

There is a chance I may be moving to Shantou in the not-too-distant future. I have an opportunity in collaboration with the school where I currently work.

--GA

Mr. English · Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Posts: 298 Location: Nakuru, Kenya

I spent a few days in Shantou in either late 2010 or early 2011. I was there to do some corporate training and I knew the name of the hotel I was going to. I came by train, and when I went out into the small parking lot there were a number of cabs. All of them wanted me to take their cab without running the meter (broken!), and wanted about 50 yuan, can't remember exactly now. I gave up on them, walked a short distance down the nearby street and caught a cab there with a meter that worked! Cost me 7 to 10 yuan, somewhere in there.

One poster above mentioned workers from Hunan. Extremely common here in Guangzhou, and I think all over Guangdong. Many many of the low-level workers in restaurants, small shops, markets, and the like are from Hunan. They typically work long hours for 28 or more days a month. The few improvements that have happened at factories haven't reached these workers yet.

GreatApe · Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:25 am Post subject:

I'm taking a business trip to Shantou this Sunday (March 24th, 2013) and will be visiting the city for the first time. I'll come back next week and post my first impressions.

I've been following the air quality and weather in Shantou for the last two months or so, and from what I can tell it's generally about the same as Guangzhou, Dongguan and Huizhou temperature-wise. A few degrees cooler, perhaps.

Monitoring the pollution levels via www.aqinc.info has convinced me that the air pollution levels are typically lower than Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Dongguan and Huizhou as well.

--GA

dakelei · Joined: 17 May 2009 Posts: 351 Location: USA

Definitely less polluted than the bigger cities but there are a lot more cars now so it ain't exactly a day on the farm either. It's not such a bad place. Quite a few of my current students hail from there.

GreatApe · Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:49 am Post subject:

So, I came back from the Shantou area on Sunday night. I say "Shantou area" and not "Shantou" because the town I went to was about 30 minutes to the West of Shantou. Overall, I was pretty impressed by the area, although it's certainly much more of a "town" than Dongguan and the larger cities in China.

Honestly, I didn't get to do much aside from look around a little bit and go to business meetings and lunch/dinner with bosses and colleagues. Still, the area that I saw is continuing massive development like so many other cities and areas in China. There are construction cranes everywhere and new apartments and shopping centres going up all over the place. There is potential all over the place, but right now ... there's not that many people or businesses in place.

The air was good. The weather was hot, but okay ... and the area has some nice mountains. The locals seemed friendly enough and the students I met were all pretty eager to say "Hullo" to the lao wai and to practice a little English. The students generally seemd to be poorer, but more motivated in terms of learning and speaking.

On a personal note, it's about time for me to "pull the trigger" on this job and decide once and for all what I'm going to do. I have to decide and that means talking to my boss and reviewing the new contract, etc. I still have time to check out the details and reflect a little bit, but that time will not last forever.

Any other experiences or reflections on living and working in the Shantou area would be appreciated.

--GA