Job Discussion Forums

[Bule_Gila]

I was wondering if the employers here are obligated, by law, to provide return airfare for expat teachers? Is it the law, regardless?

My employer wants to end my contract with 3 months before it is finished. The employer cites breach of contract, as the reason (although I strongly disagree), so is there still a requirement for the employer to pay for me to fly back home?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[Flicka]

EF?

I'd guess if they are chucking you out for "breach of contract", you won't get anything towards your air fare. I think you only get that upon successful completion of the contract. Did you get the first half of the whole airfare after 3months? Think that is the norm. I think you relinquish the right to the second half if you "breach the contract". It should all be in the small print of the contract anyway. I think regardless of the legality of any of it, or for example if you could prove you haven't breached the contract, you'd still be hard-pushed to get any support on the matter from anyone with the power to make a difference. (Unless you happen to be buddy buddy with them!)

However, wait for answers for those more in the know than I...

Good luck!

[travelNteach]

@ flicka........ it doesnt matter what bs EF writes in their contract. the law is the law and they have lost more than 1 lawsuit. the law is the law and written by the govt. of indonesia, not EF. and with the new expadited Manpower Court, teachers should always feel free to consult a lawyer and find out what their rights are, not listen to an organization that is infamous for taking advantage of and bullying their teachers. that clause u mention is from EF, not the indoneisian goverenment. the schools are liable for the foreigners and must send them home.

@OP, i would have to know a lot more what this "breach of contract" is to find out whether you are still covered under the law. The law states that the sponsoring organization is responsible for repartriating their expat staff. i would have to look up the law to see if there are any specific instances that would make this provision nul. in the specific case that i am intimately aware of, the school was held liable for an airplane ticket home. in this case it was EF, but i have also heard of non-teaching industries that companies have also been held accountable. My advice, consult an attorney. most of them will give u a first meeting for free. try to find one that speaks english and is up to date with manpower/immigration laws and regulations. i would refer you to mine but unfortunately he died 2 years ago.

but the first thing that happens is that the attorney sends them 3 letters asking them for their version of events and warning them that they are in viotation of the law. theses letters have to be deliveded 1 week apart. if they dont respond by the 3rd letter, you are free to file a lawsuit. usually lawyers charge schools a minimum of 100 mllion paid up front for the first court apperarnce in the lowest court. this doesnt count the numberous bribes or his additional charges for each appeal as the case finally works its way up to the supreme court.... 5 levels. supposedly the manpower court is only 3 levels and when the first began promised to resolve all issues with 90 days, not the 10 years it sometimes takes civil suirts to be resolved here in indoneisa. regardless of the verdict of the judge, both the plantiff and defendant have the right to appeal. the court system here is based on the dutch system, not western. generally ef will fold and pay the airfare as it is much cheaper and they dont want other teachers to know that the immigration and manpower laws are actually to their advantage.

the 3 month probation clauses are also illegal in a 1 year contract for expats. i know one teacher who "didnt pass" his probation. he sued and won because EF had no proof other than the center manager not liking that particular person. that EF speat over 1 billion rupiah in an attempt not to pay the 100+million that the lower court ruled for in the favor of the teacher. when the teacher threatened to call students and students parents as witness, that school really freaked out. at the end of the day, the bribed the teachers lawyer. so the teacher didnt get paid, but the ef lost about 2 billion to not pay the teacher. imagine if all teachers knew what the probation clause was illegal and filed suit? in the case i cited, ef was held accountable for the salary for the remainder of the contract including the 13th month, housing and other benefits, and airfare home.

sorry for the long post, but teachers it is your responsibility to learn the true contractual lawas of the country u are living in and learn to stand up for yourself rather than mekely leave the country. this goes for all schools, not just EF. so newbies like flicka, just cause EF wrote the contract doesnt mean it is right or legal. it wastn written by a lawyer, but a greedy owner or henchman like gusti that is trying to screw the teacher illegally at every turn.

dont trust me, find a compentent lawyer and ask them.

[Flicka]

Travelnteach: I stand corrected and thank you very much for a most informative post. I didn't actually know that work contracts could be written outside of the law, to be honest. Luckily I haven't had any problems during my EF stint and only got 3 months left of my contract. Here's hoping I make it to the end!!

[Bule_Gila]

@ Flicka

It is NOT EF so I hope this silences the stereotypes about EF here, at least for now lol.

@ TravelNTeach

Thank you for your information. My employer issued me a termination letter and in it she cites what i believe are childish issues as cause for termination. Example, not saying anything during staff meetings, complaining about issues pertaining to the school with other employees, instead of raising the issues at meetings, not letting anyone know when I leave for my 1 hour break, etc.

I believe that my employer is trying to terminate my contract with "cause" so she won't have to pay any severances for terminating the contract. the school is losing money, due to a lack of students and the employer even admitted to me that she can no longer afford to pay my salary.

Also, there is another Expat who is going to take my place when I leave. This Expat is here on a social visa, thus he would be working illegally. I believe my employer wanted to terminate my contract so she could illegally hire this new Expat to teach classes at a much lower rate of pay.

I wanted to know, are there any useful websites where I could view the laws set forth by manpower and the government of Indonesia

[phis]

Go to: http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.org/ There is a link for laws/visas/documents, etc. If you open that link you may find some helpful information. If you don't see what you need, send a message to 'Atlantis'. He seems to know all there is to know about the employment laws here, and is often quoted on other websites. If he doesn't have an answer for you, I don't think anybody will.

He will try and give you an explanation of the law in your situation, and will also direct you to the actual law if that is what you prefer.

Good luck

[travelNteach]

@ bulegila: usally they have to have documentation in wirting iwth your signature to show just cause and i dont believe anything u mentioned falls under that catergory.

@ flicka: no problem. that is what this board exits for ...... so we cand share knowledge and experence and offer suppost.

@ Phis, i agree that atlantis is pretty much on top of things but 2 issues: he is french and can make mistakes trasnalating documents, and 2 he is not a lawyer by trade. i agree in asking him or checking out the forums or expat.org, but the final decesion should be during a conversation with an indoneisia lawyer that specializes. additionally, they to find one that is an (MH meister hukum or masters in law) vs someone with a SH (shiester hukum) bachelores degree. sorry if botched the spelling

@ bule gila: see if u can settle with them. they have already paid your bule tax for they would only be saving the difference in salary/benefits,13th month salary, and airfare. i would tell them i will be calling immigration weekly to report a bule working there illegally. it will cost them much more in brides than they would pay you. and they would lose their license to hire foreign workers.

or if u really want to stick it to them, dont tell the school and call immigration daily to report and illegal teacher. also u or your wife or somene else take photos of him entering the shool everyday.

dont allow yourself to be a victum, but carry yourself with diginity.

[Bule_Gila]

@ Phis

Thanks for the link. I have registered and am now looking for a thread that deals with my situation.

@ TraveNTeach

I have NOT signed anything and I don't plan to do so, as i know a signature is the supreme sign of guilt.

Here are the reasons, as mentioned in my termination letter.

1. Not attending a program at Sunodia 4 school. Not calling in to let staff know I wasn't coming.

Nowhere in my contract does it state that I am obligated to show up for advertising campaigns. Also, it does not say that it is mandatory for me to call in advance for such issues. the only time my contract says I must call in is for absences (I showed up for work this day)

2. When we have staff meetings, I say nothing, but complain to co-workers about problems

Obviously my employer has never heard of VENTING your frustrations before, besides it is not stated in my contract that I have to say anything in meetings and it is not illegal to complain with other co-workers.

3. I had a break from 3-6, and no one knew where I was.

I worked from 9am to 9pm this day, so a longer break was needed. Even with this longer break, i still worked 9 hours, which is a violation of the contract I had which states the first party is not supposed to let the second party work for more than 8 hours a day (She knew about this and approved the day as well) The secretaries know NO English, and I know very little Indonesian, so i told them "Aku jalan jalan. Makan". I thought they knew what i meant but obviously they didnt.

4. Complaining about having to do a free trial class for students.

The manager gave me 1 hour notice to prepare the room, get the materials, copy the materials, and review the materials. My complaint was that they should have booked the class in advance so we could properly prepare.

5. Skipping a unit in a book with a class and marking incorrect sentences as being correct.

The class skipped the unit because their classes had run out. they were supposed to do 5 units but only got to the end of 4 units. When they started the next level, they continued onto unit 6, instead of covering unit 5. I let the English coordinator know this and she said it was "Ok". Also, I did oral, self correction with the student. I asked the student to speak out the sentence and try to find the errors. When the student was able to do this, I placed a tick next to the incorrect sentence. After each sentence, i ask the students to write down the corrections in their notebooks. I dont know if the student did this (appears he/she didn't) but i did NOT correct incorrect sentences.

6. When i am in the office, the other employees say i do nothing but go on the internet.

I am the only teacher here who does lesson plans and attaches them to the backs of the attendance lists. I prepare classes days in advance this way, so when I am in the office, i already know what i will teach the students. Also, as for internet use, I used it to try and get my employers institution ETS status for TOEFL testing, Cambridge recognition for certificates and IELTS, accessing online materials to use in future classes, and gaining information to create power point presentations i could do with the rest of the teaching staff (to improve our teaching ability). So yes, i am on the net a lot but not for personal use

I explained all this to my employer and she still terminated me. She admitted to me that she could no longer pay my salary because of lack of students and this is why I believe she terminated me (to save money and absolve herself from paying any money for terminating the contract, by citing "just cause" for termination.)

A week before this, i over heard my employer and the English coordinator speaking about another "Bule" who was here. They were discussing his VISA and the fact that he was here on a social visa. I believe this is the BULE I saw in the school when i came in and was terminated. If he is working here when i am gone, my employer can pay him much less, since he is doing an illegal act, and still have the BULE WHITE FACE to promote.

[travelNteach]

perhaps we should continue this conversaton via PM.
it all sounds pretty petty.

have u given them your passport to process your EPO? if not, dont. it gives u a much stronger let to stand on.
have they written down all the resons for termination, both in english and indoneisan? get copies if u can.

there are other things u can do to protect yourself. another factor, they probably have a keylogger program on their computer. i think i remember u writing a thread that u were coming to jkt for traning and possibly another job. if they konw about that, that is probably the true reason.

are u close to any of the office boys? or satpam? they love to gossip and for a pack or smokes or a bowl in indomie paket telor, they will tell u if another bule is hanging out.

anyway, pm me and we can discuss in more detail.

start your own thread on expat.org. atlantis will be sure to respond he is a great guy and really keeps up with the board and various threads

[Bule_Gila]

@ TravelNteach

I have NOT given them my passport and I don't intend to until this matter is finished to my satisfaction. Also, the reasons I mentioned in my last message are ALL the reasons cited in the termination letter. I received an original copy of the termination letter from my employer that was in English ONLY (no Indonesian letter). I still have the original letter of termination with me.

As for me looking for other employment; my employer has NO idea that I am seeking other means for employment. The school is independently owned and operated, so there are no Keylogger programs governing the internet (if there were, the whole staff would be reprimanded for their excessive use of Facebook. Even if my employer knew, it is not cause for termination, since I only have 3 months left on my contract with this place.

I would love to Pm you here but I have no idea how to do it, as I am still a newbie to this site.

[travelNteach]

so far so good. sounds like u are playing it right. i would try and find a local attorney that would write those 3 letters of intent to sue for a nominal fee.

ps. keylogger program is a program that allows the school to see everything you send and receive via the internet, including passwords to your email and sites like this. those petty reasons that she wrote might be because the school is unable to afford your salary, but is also typical of the petty and immature reaction of indonesias that feel u have been disloyal to them.

see ya on the PM.

[Durian Tango]

Ghost Rider, looking back at all your posts, you seem to run into trouble at all the schools you work at (you mentioned 3 schools in 4.5 years).

I would advise that, rather than going around spreading ill will against all the schools in Jakarta, you change professions/countries. It sounds to me like the ESL community here is just not up to your high standards. Perhaps you should try somewhere else for a change.

Good luck.