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English degree of any benefit for ESL?

 
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Sudz



Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 438

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: English degree of any benefit for ESL? Reply with quote

Hi everyone.

I'm enrolling in an MA TESOL program (probably), and I'm wondering what a practical BA might be down the line? Yes I'm taking the slightly uncommon MA - BA route!

Would having a BA in English be of any benefit, or might a random BA (say psychology) be all the same?

Btw if things work out with just the MA, I think I'll stick with that. However, I might decide to chip away at some classes though (distance) down the line (there are a few countries where I'll be compromised by just having the MA)
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s10czar



Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You get level 2 pay in a public school job in Korea with a BA in English.

Level 2 is the same rate that you get with one year experience or a CELTA and is 200,000 won more than level 1
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sort of depends on what you study in your English degree. If all of the courses are English lit types of courses (so you're reading novels, short stories, poetry and plays and writing essays) then no, it's not really directly applicable- probably. Although, if you do a lot of comparative literature (between different cultures and countries), then that would be useful (especially if your masters degree is from Australia, New Zealand or the UK). And children's literature may be useful as well. Depending on the level you teach and what you teach, courses in creative writing would be useful (journalism, too- but often journalism is separate from the English department).

A degree in psychology, though isn't a random degree for this area- having a background in developmental psychology would be really useful.

A degree in linguistics is really the most directly applicable (especially if the masters degree is from a North American university). But linguistics is the scientific study of human language, and people with a background entirely in that can have a bit of an issue when it comes time to being unscientific.

By the end of a masters in language teaching, your head will be in language teacher mode. If you go on to study another area after that that is even remotely connected (basically any of the humanities subjects, plus business communications types of subjects [journalism, public relations, advertising, international relations- I'm not sure if that's really a 'business communications' area, though]), then you will likely find that you figure out ways of using it in your teaching. Double majors are possible at a lot of universities- you could do English literature AND psychology (that seems to be a common double major in Ontario, actually) or English literature AND linguistics, for example.
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fladude



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It probably depends a lot on where you want to work. If you would ever want to work at US style International School, then having an English degree could be used to make you "highly qualified." Being highly qualified is a big term in the USA. And as such it would be big at an International School that uses the American system. It would also help you get a job in the USA at a public school if you ever wanted one. I don't know anything about the British system so I can't comment.

I would also recommend a double major. If you want to teach having a second degree in communications is always nice. It seems like schools like to stick new English teachers with a journalism class or two (and hand the year book off to them). Also it might open up other jobs such as being a news correspondent or whatnot.

I think a double major in psychology would also be great. That is still taught in a lot of schools and having the degree would make you highly qualified. So you could apply to teach both English and Psychology. Also you might want to get into school counseling down the road. Being a school counselor can pay well and can be a fairly "cush" job.

Bottom line though, watch your costs. Don't spend 10 times on college what you will earn.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say any random one will do, IF it's from a proper uni, people usually specialise with their MA anyways.
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somewhere_else



Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think for your BA you can probably study what interests you more and as long as you have your MA specializing in TESOL it will be fine.

GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:


A degree in psychology, though isn't a random degree for this area- having a background in developmental psychology would be really useful.



I have a BA in psychology with a focus in development, and have very much found this to be true. The general development courses helped me when teaching and managing classrooms and the language development ones helped me to understand the language acquisition process.



Quote:
It probably depends a lot on where you want to work. If you would ever want to work at US style International School, then having an English degree could be used to make you "highly qualified." Being highly qualified is a big term in the USA. And as such it would be big at an International School that uses the American system. It would also help you get a job in the USA at a public school if you ever wanted one. I don't know anything about the British system so I can't comment.


I'm not sure about this. Although I have seen the term "highly qualified" on every posting for a public school job in the US because of federal regulations and No Child Left Behind (NCLB), I have never seen it used when applying to international schools. Also, just having a degree in English would not automatically make you "highly qualified". I think you would still need to pass a content area exam in English/Language Arts and prove that you have other education coursework or are eligible for a teaching license. A lot of international schools also require full teacher certification and want two years of teaching experience in your home country so a degree in English wouldn't necessarily be an advantage when applying to those kinds of places.
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fladude



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

somewhere_else wrote:
Also, just having a degree in English would not automatically make you "highly qualified". I think you would still need to pass a content area exam in English/Language Arts and prove that you have other education coursework or are eligible for a teaching license. A lot of international schools also require full teacher certification and want two years of teaching experience in your home country so a degree in English wouldn't necessarily be an advantage when applying to those kinds of places.


That's not exactly right.

It depends entirely on the State, however, the Federal Guidelines specifically allow 30 hours of content area study in that field to be highly qualified, OR for the teacher to pass a nationally accepted certification exam (like Praxis II). Remember that the Federal Guidelines are like an umbrella which set the minimum requirements. States are free to add their own requirements on top of them.

Some states, like Alaska, just follow the Federal requirements. Alaska allows you to be certified through either method. The teacher must also pass a general competency exam like Praxis I. So Alaska meets but does not exceed the Federal requirements.

Some States pick or choose the requirements they allow. Florida is like that. In Florida you must pass the test to be certified (having 30 credit hours is not enough). So you can major in psychology and test into English, or you can major in English and test into English. Everyone in Florida must pass the test though. So even if you have a degree in English you must still pass the English exam before you can receive your permanent certificate.

That does not mean that every school district in Florida would hire someone like that though. My own major was in History, but I tested into English and found it to be very difficult going when I applied for English positions. Many of the "prep schools" and suburban schools want actual degree holders and/or Masters in Education degree holders. The candidates who just tested into the certification were not considered unless they had years of experience.

Other states require the teacher to both pass the test and take 30 credit hours. New York is like that. New York requires you to have 30 credit hours of study in the area that you teach and to pass the competency exam. Having done both in Social Studies and gotten qualified to teach English by just taking the test, I can say that the test is very easy and if you do not pass it then you should not be in a classroom. That is why some of the higher end states require 30 credit hours + the test.

Having taken several of these tests and looked at other certification tests, I am pretty sure that with a little study I could pass any of them. I could pass the Calculus exam and the Physics exam and the Chemistry exam, if I bought a prep book and studied for the test. The fact is though that I know almost nothing about these subjects. I am just good at taking multiple choice tests. I would be an absolute disaster as a Chemistry teacher. Hence why some districts want actual degree holders and not just some guy who went down, paid 200 bucks, and took a certification exam.

As for international schools, I have seen a few which require you to hold a degree in the subject area that you teach (at least in their advertisement). I have even seen a few which at least ask for a Masters (and one or two public high schools with this requirement). It all depends on how high up you want to go, or at least what kind of kids you want to teach (this is not necessarily related to your pay though). Generally higher end schools are going to prefer degree holders. That does not mean they wouldn't hire anyone else, but when you have 10 applicants for every job..... Of course having years of experience can make the difference and get around this, but for your first jobs I think it helps a lot.

So what does all this mean? It means that YES some states and some schools will only employ you if you have 30 credit hours in the area you teach. So if you are going back to school and starting afresh then you might as well pick up a content area degree or double major so that you can work in the maximum number of places. Or at least that is how I would look at it.

Edited to add: My information applies only to Secondary education (High School). I understand that the requirements and job duties in elementary are completely different. Teaching little kids does not require any kind of content area degree (at least to my knowledge). The two jobs are completely different. I would not walk into an elementary classroom for anything.
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