Job Discussion Forums

[CherieAT]

So...I want to get going with my career as a teacher by 2012. I want to build on my experience and get my TESL Certificate and Office Assistant Certificate. I have done some short term private lessons for some children and I was a teaching assistant for 3 year olds in a school in Egypt as well as a unqualified substitute for 2 weeks at an Elementary School in Egypt, being put on the spot with little to no experience is stressful haha but I survived. I would like to actually teach and know what I am doing besides English being my first language. I have recently gotten into ESL Volunteering in Canada and I am also volunteering in Administration. I would like to have some feedback about some ideas of what I should do that would better my chances or being hired. I have some connections but any extra advice would be invaluable.

Cher

[Glenski]

Before we can give advice, where are you thinking of working? And in what capacity?

[tttompatz]

[CherieAT]

I am a Canadian Citizen. I thought I would be hired with TESL and the fact I have done some teaching in another country. Well I still have a chance at getting work. I don't understand why some places want you to have a degree in just about anything and TESL. It does not prove you are going to be a good teacher if you have a degree in Psychology or Criminology. Anyways thank you for the input. Does anyone else have a reply. By 2012 I will have a year teaching experience, TESL Certificate, Travel experience and computer skills. What would be a good program to take that would show me how to do presentations..etc...

[nickpellatt]

The degree question is simply because many countries require a minimum of a BA/BSC degree to satisfy working visa requirements. To some degree, I agree with you...an unrelated degree (and sometimes even a related degree) doesnt tell very much about ones actual ability in a classroom, BUT it does set a reasonable benchmark as a minimum standard. I think its quite reasonable to have some kind of minimum standard.

In many places, the same also applies to the type of teacher training certification you have. The industry minimum in many places is a CELTA/Trinity or equivalent. The equivalent is a recognised course of 120 hours onsite with observed teaching practice. In some employment markets you will be disadvantaged, or possibly unemployable, with less than this.

So the questions asked from other members are also quite relevant. Passport, degree status, and clarification on what type of EFL certificate you have can dictate where you can legally work.

I dont really know what kind of advice you are looking for to be honest. Assuming you have completed a recognised EFL qualification, and considering your previous experience in Egypt, and your current volunteering, the only way you can learn more is by teaching more. I dont think there are many courses that teach presentations (EFL doesnt involve many presentations), so with a nice resume showing your degree, TEFL qualification and experience, its time to apply for jobs. Have you been applying for jobs and not getting replies? If so, where have you applied? If you can share that information, the people who work in/or have worked in, those countries might be able to offer some more insight.

If you are looking for further programs of education to learn more...then I guess the options are MA TESOL or looking at a DELTA or equivalent. Otherwise, you need to decide where in the world you would like to teach, what age groups you would like to work with, and what type of environment you want to work in (kindergarten/public school/University/Training centre).

[rafaella]

I second everything nickpellatt has said.

To offer more help, we need to know:
1) if you have a degree
2) the name of the EFL qualification you have
3) the type of environment you would like to work in
4) where you would like to work

[Nemodot]

Hi although I have a certain sympathy for older people without a degree I agree a degree should be the minimum qualification for any teaching job. For assistant instructors who are doing a degree or about to start one a Celta will do, but the basic ability to study and be committed to education and have the basic minimum education is in my opinion essential.

For some older people limited opportunities may be a good reason why no degree but these people may well have advanced vocational qualifications that are equivalent to a degree.

Otherwise who wants an ex dustman teaching tefl? And I have family who have been dustman but they would be the first to admit they know nothing about teaching!

And with so many degree holders these days I think it should be enforced. Any young person with ambition to teach should get a degree to show they can be educated. It isn't so hard these days especially with legitimate online degrees.

[smurfetta]

I agree with the others. We need to know your level of education and where you want to teach.

In BC, you need to have a B.Ed, certification (www.bcct.ca), and usually some sort of approved ESL qualification to teach ESL in K-12 schools. I'm not sure about college and university level teaching but I think you may need to have at least a MA in applied linguistics or TESOL.

[Glenski]

[CherieAT]

Great! Thanks for all of your thoughts and advice I will keep it all in mind when I am reaching for my goals. Well, Glenski first off I am not upset haha
Just trying to get some information thats all. I don't have a bachelor's in anything. All I can bring to the table by 2012 is TESL Certificate 1 year experience plus overseas experience, plus I am Canadian and my first language is English. I was thinking of working with a younger crowd, teaching anywhere between grades 1-7 English. I would like to teach in either Saudi Arabia or Egypt but I am open to other places as well. I know now that a DEGREE is a very important thing to obtain. I will do my best to build on everything and see where it takes me.

Have a great day/night

[naturegirl321]

Age is another issue. If you're too old or too young, that could work against you.

My advice: get your degree. I've never ever known anyone who has regretted getting a degree, but I know plenty who have regretted not doing so.

If you want to teach in Saudi, you're going to either be teaching at an intl school or uni. For an intl school, you'll need to be a qualified teacher. For a uni, you'll need at least a BA, but an MA is preffered, plus a couple years uni teaching experience.

With no degree, China is a good place to start. MANy employers in China require a degree, but you might be able to get a job because of life experience. Try Thailand as wlel.

A degree proves that you're committed to better your educatino. If you can't better yours, how to you expect to teach others? You have to practice what you preach. besides, it's immigration rules. No degree, no visa. end of story.

Keep in mind that you're competing with other peopel. Who would you choose?
Person A: degree in European history, TEFL cert, one year exp.
Person B: no degree, TEFL cert, one year exp.

Person A is the obvious chioce. They have more quals.

[nickpellatt]

Hello again ... the degree thing is going to be an issue I think. And I know from personal experience how frustrating that is. In early 2006 I took a belated gap year and spent 4 months in Kenya doing volunteer work for a community based charity in a small village. Part of that work was in schools and with children. The people I worked with felt I had an aptitude for it, and suggested I look into teaching as something to stick with. I was quite keen on that idea for a variety of reasons so when I came home I looked into my options.

I started with the state school system and made an appointment with my sons old headteacher and went to visit the school to discuss the path I could follow into a primary school position. The headmaster was really keen and supportive, until we got around to discussing my undergradute degree. I didnt have one. He lost interest at that point as its a pre-requisite. I was pretty frustrated as I thought 'Hey, Its 6 year old kids and the alphabet. How would an undergrad in social science help there?'.

I then went to a local British Council registered English training school for foreign adult students. They offered a Trinity course for teaching English as a foreign language. 'Great' I thought, 'I can take their course, and then get a job teaching English with them!'. Again, I made an appointment, went to see them ... and my first question was, 'If I do well and pass your course, what are the odds of being employed by you?'. A fair enough question I thought seeing as they wanted me to pay �1000 to take the course. Her reply was, 'Tell me about your undergraduate degree?'.

Obviously, I wasnt exactly a happy bunny at this. Its very frustrating to find something you think you can do, and would like to do, but have these barriers put in front of you. I felt life experience, working experience and personality should overcome the lack of degree. Especially considering most students do little more than sleep late, drink too much, and sleep their way around campus at University

Of course, I moaned about it. To friends, via email to people I spent time in Africa with. And finally I accepted that I was going to have to at least look at my options for taking a degree. Right or wrong, it was obviously the main thing that was holding me back, and that situation was never going to change, no matter what other experience I brought to the table.

Of course, it cant be completed overnight but I started a distance learning course in early 2007 to start the process. Do look into options of distance learning, nightschool, and you may find there is support and other assistance available to you. If you're lucky like I was, you may find its actually quite easy to complete undergrad studies too. Without it, its just going to get harder. Just as Western countries are slowly closing loopholes for immigration, and tightening regulations, other countries are doing the same. 15 years ago, a white face and a pulse would probably have been enough to secure legal teaching employment in China. Now they ask for degrees and work experience. Forum chatter suggests at some stage in the future, they may ask for a minimum of a Masters degree for legal employment. The situation with legal status and education is likely to get tougher.

What you should also do is take a look at some job adverts. This site has them, and I also like TEFL.com. You can look at job adverts and see what employers in different countries are asking for in terms of person specification and qualifications. That will help you to focus your search and consider regions. Who knows what will happen in Egypt after the recent political issues, maybe it will offer an opportunity for you? I wouldnt be so sure about Saudi Arabia though. Again, check some job postings there, but I believe even the low end employers like some chain schools ask for a minimum of 3 years experience plus an MA TESOL. There may also be a gender issue there? Women arent exactly empowered in Saudi, and I think men are preferred for most jobs.

If a degree really isnt something you are going to consider, your options are always going to be seriously limited, but there may still be some options for you. The volunteer work you mention is a good thing. Worst case scenario is that you can keep volunteering alongside any other work. At least then for part of your working life you are doing something you really want to do. Do English summer camps exist in your part of the world? Where I live in the UK we have lots of foreign students that come to visit on short stays. The organisations that offer this often seek employees and dont always have such strict rules about qualifications.

Also consider other locations. This is only anecdotal, but I believe some places in South America dont require a degree. Again, check some job adverts for the region. I did look at job adverts for Colombia once, and they didnt need a degree, BUT they did want a Trinity or CELTA. (I still dont know what your TESL is?)

You might also consider teaching English online? For some online teaching jobs, the only requirement is to be a native speaker. Remember though, all the jobs that will take you with minimal experience and qualifications are also going to pay minimum wages!

But do think long and hard about the degree. Its a must have really. And when you have it, you may well have to consider more further education too. It isnt the golden ticket, and its likely further qualifications will still be required for many jobs/many regions.

I finished my degree at the end of 2009. Its not the best degree in the world, but I have it now. I spend my time doing some online teaching, I have done some volunteer teaching, I work in summer camps in the UK, I have worked (and will work again) in entry level jobs in China. Ive never had a great job pre-teaching, but in 2010-11, I made 50% of what I used to earn pre-teaching! I still cant get jobs in the schools I really want to work in, and I still have some parts of the world that are inaccessible to me because of my limited experience and education. But thats OK, I have spent the last 5 years doing what I really like to do, and what I really enjoy doing. Its not always easy, and I often have to make sacrifices because of my choices, but it can be done.

But you need to get that degree first OK

[Glenski]

Thanks, CherieAT.

As I wrote earlier, without a degree, you cannot expect to get a FT teaching job and work visa (in Japan). Well, yes, you can, but you need to be able to prove you have 3 years of FT related work experience.

If you can't do that, the working holiday visa is all you can hope for in Japan.

That said, there are options galore, depending on what situation you are in.

1. Student visa holders in Japan can apply for special permission to work PT.
2. So can people on cultural activities visas.
3. So can people married to someone who has a proper visa.
4. If you are married to a Japanese, you can work without a degree, but you will still face a barrier with some employers who prefer their teachers to have a degree.

You have listed Egypt and Saudi as your countries of choice, not Japan, but I posted this in case similar options are open there. You should probably consult the country-specific forums for their respective experts.

[wiganer]

[spiral78]