Job Discussion Forums

[Oh My God]

[deadlift]

[Oh My God]

[deadlift]

I am speaking from experience. I have worked at backpacker schools and I have never once seen anything that you could reasonably call "training".

I agree that the idea that the CELTA fully prepares someone to be a great teacher is absurd. But I don't believe CELTA has ever made that claim. In fact, the specific endorsement provided by the CELTA is something like "has competently completed the teaching practice but will require ongoing support and training to develop their skills" (I forget the precise wording). Only the CELTA pass A endorsement implies that the graduate is immediately able to work independently.

I also believe that the idea that a backpacker school will provide any kind of substantive training is equally absurd. You get given a book and a CD, and pointed to the classroom. But that's just my moronic opinion and non-existent experience.

[GemGem]

I've just been offered a full-time position with Apollo - either with paid leave or unpaid leave.
With the paid leave they are offering 10 days a year with a further 10 public holidays. This seems really low to me! Is this standard?

I think working for them would be ok as a newbie to ESL for my first year but whilst I'm there I do want some time to explore the country I'm going to be living in!

[haller_79]

MOD EDIT

If becoming a teacher was simply a matter of walking into a school, any school, with little or no qualifications and it all magically comes to you - well why on earth would teachers colleges, universities etc offer education courses?

BTW I'm not interested in you're reply to this because no doubt it will include plenty of bold type, exclamation marks and underlining.

Deadlift is right imho.

[Oh My God]

[shanewarne]

I want to be you!

[LettersAthruZ]

[Jbhughes]

OP / other Apollo applicants -

I did my CELTA this time last year in Ha Noi with Apollo, this took a month and during that time I spoke to a few teachers there and noticed a few trends with what they said and what others have posted here -

for what it's worth:

-They complained that their schedules had fairly recently been changed (due to staff changes) and that this, coupled with managerial changes, meant that they felt the place was quite disorganised. This was further exemplified whenever we arrived for 'scheduled' teaching observations of Apollo teachers to shocked faces and less-than-happy welcomes (who can blame them - lesson observations are one thing, discovering one a couple of minutes before the start of your lesson is quite another).

-Most were there because for one of 3 main reasons (or a combination thereof): They did their CELTA there and took up job offers on completion
Apollo was one of the schools in town where one could obtain a work permit and therefore cure any of the usual visa headaches.
They provided training, presumably of the previously-used acronym nature.

-The pay was considered relatively average, with the part-timers making good money when the hours were good.



Although I haven't been to Hai Phong, everyone I know who has says that it's a pretty horrid, boring place - although Ha Long bay is nearby of course and quite lovely.

[Jbhughes]

As for where the thread is going at the moment regarding qualifications -

Until I did the CELTA, I never really understood how a course could provide that much extra than the teacher books that come with coursebooks and what one learns through pure experience. I always assumed that the main reason those with qualifications spoke with such high regard about them was because they had paid a reasonable amount of money for them.

Until I did the CELTA, I thought that I was doing a reasonable job, reinventing the wheel all on my own and utilising my experience in the classroom to further my teaching. I worked hard too, preparing lessons, looking up worksheets, pictures and other materials on the internet - even designing some of my own materials in the process.

Before I did the CELTA, I always felt reasonably respected and popular amongst the sts and the school was satisfied with how I was doing.


Then I did the CELTA. I discovered amazing new techniques that I would never had thought of. I learnt how to correctly structure lessons and why. I won't bother listing all of the learning outcomes of CELTA - the point is that I learnt all manner of things that diligently working away on my own I would never have learnt.

I also found that during my teaching experience prior to the CELTA that I HAD actually learnt things about teaching - but not the things I had thought I had. Without a course, I hadn't had a way of distinguishing what was positive and worthwhile about my teaching methods and what was irrelevant and dross (dross reached at the end of a line of reasoning and extensive thought is still as much dross as that which one thinks up over a Sai Gon Xanh).

This brings me to my final point (anyone still reading up to here, may you be bolstered on your quest by this salient news) -

I don't believe that it's fair to say that teachers without any form of qualification / training are bad teachers. But why is it you feel that other people's years of research, experimentation and study and the creation and ruin of whole schools of thought can't help your own? I doubt that there are many of the rather touched 'you can speak it so you can teach it'-people around on this forum and I would never lump all teachers without qualifications in with these special people.


I'm not saying that the CELTA is the be-all and end-all of ESOL and as rightly said, it's just an entry level course. It isn't the only one either - CertTESOL and basically other accredited 120 hour / 6 hour observed teaching are also entry level courses recommended on this site. I'm hoping to have similar epiphanies if I manage to get on to a DELTA at the end of this year - I even expect to throw out some of what I learnt during CELTA. I also won't claim that everything in my above post can't be achieved using OTJT (is there a prize for using this acronym, even if so late in my thread?) - you guys working in HaNoi / HCMC will know if there actually are any schools or not who take people on and offer professional training to teachers without qualifications.

[London Bridge]

[quote="Oh My God"]

[haller_79]

Spot on JBHughes. Also I think Vietnam is the kind of place where you could get away with being a clueless teacher, especially in the lower quality schools where you're expected first and foremost to be 'funny'.

[deadlift]

[deessell2]

Funny + good looking + well dressed = Best Teacher ever!
This is the recipe for success nearly everywhere in East Asia.