Job Discussion Forums

[cha muir]

Gordon rightly pointed out how it was too bad that the family thread had turned into a vaccination thread so I thought it would be best to start a new one here.

I have been reading a web site called www.thinktwice.com. Perhaps you could have a look at that if you are interested.


cha

[cha muir]

Here is something from this website:

Q. My daughter Lyla Rose Belkin died on September 16, 1998 at the age of five weeks, shortly after receiving a Hepatitis B vaccine booster shot.The following comments are intended to be a heads up to parents and potential parents about the risks of the Hepatitis B vaccine (HBV), and a firsthand report questioning the scientific legitimacy of the vaccine industry, which provides $800 million of annual revenue to Merck -- the company which makes the Hepatitis B vaccine distributed in the US.

Lyla Rose Belkin was a lively, alert five-week-old baby when I last held her in my arms. Little did I imagine as she gazed intently into my eyes with all the innocence and wonder of a newborn child that she would die that night. She was never ill before receiving the Hepatitis B shot that afternoon. At her final feeding that night, she was agitated and feisty -- and then fell asleep and didn’t wake up. The autopsy ruled out choking. A swollen brain was the only abnormal finding. Most doctors I spoke to at the time said it must have been Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), a catch-all diagnosis for unexplainable childhood mortality. The first instinctive reaction in such a situation is for parents to blame themselves. For many weeks, my wife and I agonized over what we might have missed or could have done differently. Meanwhile, the logical part of my brain kept returning to the obvious medical event that preceded Lyla’s death -- and that internal voice kept asking the question could the Hepatitis B vaccine that Lyla received that afternoon have killed her? Most doctors I asked scoffed at that notion and said the vaccine was perfectly safe. But I began to search around on the Internet and Medline and discovered disturbing evidence of adverse reactions to this vaccine.

In the US, the Hepatitis B disease mainly infects intravenous drug users, homosexuals, prostitutes and promiscuous heterosexuals. The disease is transmitted by blood, through sex or dirty needles. How could a newborn baby possibly get Hepatitis B if the mother was screened and tested negative, as my wife was? It is almost impossible. Unless a newborn child is having unprotected sex or sharing needles with an infected junkie, it is extremely unlikely to get the Hepatitis B disease. So then why are most U.S. babies inoculated at birth by their hospital or pediatrician with the Hepatitis B vaccine? That is a question every parent should ask before getting this vaccination. I’ve discovered the answer is an unrestrained health bureaucracy decided it couldn’t get junkies, gays, prostitutes and promiscuous heterosexuals to take the Hepatitis B vaccine so they mandated that all babies must be vaccinated at birth. Drug companies such as Merck (reaching for new markets) were instrumental in pushing government scientists to adopt an at-birth Hepatitis B vaccination policy, although the vaccine was never tested in newborns and no vaccines had ever been mandated at birth before. It is widely recognized that newborns have underdeveloped immune systems, which can be overwhelmed or shocked.

My search for answers about a link between the Hepatitis B vaccine and my daughter’s death led me to a Hepatitis B vaccine workshop on October 26th at the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), Institute of Medicine entitled Vaccine Safety Forum -- Neonatal Deaths. The NAS was concerned enough about reports of Hepatitis B vaccine-related infant deaths and adverse reactions to hold a special workshop on the subject. Doctors and scientists flew in from all over the U.S. and Europe to attend. I sat in the back and soaked it all up. It was a real eye-opener. There were basically four constituencies represented: 1) Serious scientists observing or presenting research studies. 2) Center for Disease Control (CDC) pseudo-statisticians and FDA officials. 3) Merck and other corporate drug officials, and 4) Parents of vaccine-related dead or severely injured children.

The presentations included a study of Animal Models of Newborn Response to Antigen Presentation, which showed that newborn immune systems were undeveloped and strikingly different than those of adults. The message I received was that immune response in a newborn to shocks such as being injected with a vaccine was potentially unknown, since newborn T-Cells have a radically different behavior then those of adults. Another presentation was Strategies for Evaluating the Biologic Mechanisms of Hepatitis B Vaccine Reactions, in which vaccine researcher Dr. Bonnie Dunbar of Baylor College related numerous Hepatitis B-vaccine related cases of nervous system damage in adults, such as Multiple Sclerosis, seizures and blindness. On the more positive side, the FDA presented a seemingly reassuring study from its Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), which showed only 19 neonatal deaths reported since 1991 related to Hepatitis B vaccination.

I found the VAERS study data to be completely deceptive. Since I was sitting in that room and my daughter had died during their sample period and wasn’t counted -- I wondered why. In fact, the New York City Coroner called VAERS to report my daughter’s Hepatitis B Vaccine-related infant death and no one ever returned their call! What kind of reporting system doesn’t return the calls of the NY City Medical Examiner -- and how many other reports were ignored? This is supposed to be the emergency 911 number for disasters such as bad lots of vaccine that could poison thousands of other babies. With the personal knowledge that the VAERS data was completely flawed, I sat in that room and listened in amazement as CDC officials and Dr. Sharrar of Merck (their head of vaccine safety) made disparaging comments about any possible risk from Hepatitis B vaccination, despite the evidence just presented by impartial scientists.

I studied statistics and econometrics at UC Berkeley and have developed innovative methods of applying probability to financial and economic data in my consulting business with some of the largest financial institutions in the world. That training and experience qualifies me to criticize the statistical legitimacy of the VAERS study, on which Sharrar of Merck and the CDC pseudo-scientists based their pro-vaccination stance. Their comments were scathingly dismissive of any possible risk from the vaccine. But that VAERS study is not a legitimate sample of a data set from which any conclusions about the larger population can be made. VAERS doesn’t return coroner’s calls, leading to the suspicion that deaths and adverse effects from vaccination are woefully under-reported. To conclude that the Hepatitis B vaccine is safe because VAERS only reports 19 deaths is scientific fraud. In fact, I obtained the raw data from the VAERS system and found 54 reported SIDS cases after Hepatitis B vaccination in just the 18 months from January 1996 to May 1997. That’s almost 15 times as many deaths per year as their own flawed study reported. There are 17,000 reports of adverse reactions to Hepatitis B vaccine in the 1996-97 raw data. Clearly, something is fishy about VAERS. VAERS was set up by the FDA and CDC and is supposed to be monitored by vaccine manufacturers. If there are 17,000 reports and VAERS doesn’t even return the NY Medical Examiner’s call, how many other deaths and injuries go unreported? I came away from that NAS workshop with the distinct impression that Merck and the CDC didn’t know and didn’t really want to know how many babies are being killed or injured by Hepatitis B vaccination. This is a bureaucratic vaccination program that is on auto-pilot flying into a mountain. The CDC bureaucrats have a vested interest in the status quo. If there were 17,000 reports of a dangerous disease in a 18 month period, the CDC would be all over the case. But when there are 17,000 reports of adverse reactions to a vaccine the CDC advocates for “public health,” the CDC dismisses it as a coincidence. Merck charges $50 a shot for the three-shot series. Where do you think the allegiance of their vaccine safety official Dr. Sharrar lies? He was by far the most arrogant character at the workshop. Merck has sales of upwards of $800 million a year from vaccines.

Vaccination can be a lifesaver if an epidemic is raging, but in this case the risk of vaccination outweighs the risk of infants getting the disease. Surely, the hepatitis B vaccine doesn’t injure every child that gets it, but in some unknown number of cases, it appears to be a death sentence and/or a nervous system toxin to innocent children who are at no risk of getting the disease the vaccine is supposed to protect against. My observations of Merck and CDC scientists at the Vaccine Safety Forum left me with the distinct impression that they had absolutely no idea which babies might be killed or injured by this vaccine. Furthermore, they used obviously flawed scientific data to arrogantly steamroller any opposition to their power. Parents should beaware that the Hepatitis B vaccine is not administered for the well-being of their child. Rather, it is delivered by the long arm of some incompetent and mindless bureaucracy in the name of stamping out a disease most babies can’t possibly get. The Drug Company/CDC/FDA alliance has really pulled the wool over the medical profession’s eyes with the Hepatitis B vaccine. The American Pediatric Society bought the alliance’s sales pitch and now recommends that all infants get this vaccine at birth. So now the first thing most babies get in life is a shock to their immune system from a vaccine against a non-existent risk of contracting Hepatitis B. Clearly, the interests of newborn babies were not represented on the original panel that created this vaccination policy in 1991. This vaccine has no benefit whatsoever for newborns, in fact it wears off and they will need booster shots later in life when they actually could get exposed to the disease.

This is simply a case of ravenous corporate greed and mindless bureaucracy teaming up to overwhelm common sense. Merck in particular has gone way over the edge with this vaccination program. Ignoring and suppressing reports of adverse reactions to their profitable Hepatitis B vaccine verges on criminal conduct. A major media organization will soon present an investigative report on the issues discussed here. Nothing will ever bring my lovely daughter Lyla back, but other needless deaths and injuries can be prevented if this senseless Hepatitis B newborn vaccination program is halted. Please contact Belkin Limited in New York City if you are aware of other infant deaths that may be related to the Hepatitis B vaccine.



Sad isn't it? Doesn't it make you angry?

cha

[gugelhupf]

A wise move to disentangle this discussion from the families thread. The subject is particularly relevant to TEFLers - with or without children - whose travels may lead them to encounter a range of infectious diseases that are probably not normally widespread in their coutry of origin.

The site you cite (if you pardon the choice of words) is subsidiary to a publisher/distributor whose main source of income is from the sale of books whose collective standpoint is somewhat one-sided. I would trust the info. contained on the site, in terms of objectivity, about as much as I would the info. contained in glossy sales brochures from Pfizer.

Unfortunately, the vaccinations issue has become one of those "health scares" that taxes the minds of those people for whom real disease is no longer a serious risk and basically need the angst of a few new syndromes to subsitute for the real thing. That website reflects this mood rather well. I would also point out that the title of "Dr." in front of the name of authors is easily come by these days.

Of course there is a health risk implicit in vaccinations. That's why (except in the US - chickenpox vaccine for goodness sake!) vaccination is used for potentially crippling and or life-threatening diseases and not for trivial ailments. There is a health risk with any kind of injection.

People who choose not to vaccinate don't offend me. As I said on the other thread that's their choice, in my opinion.

But quacks and charlatans, for whom the www must have been manna from heaven, wind me up very quickly indeed. Just take a look on the website in question at the "remedies" links where an assortment of snake-oil vendors (for a not inconsiderable sum of money) offer diagnoses of "vaccination related" ailments that other (expensive) snake-oil vendors can "cure".

Such quackery gives genuine preventative medicine a bad name and makes it even harder for serious researchers in fields that you mentioned - e.g. the guy who recommended aerobic exercise as a preventative for cardiovascular illness - to get proper funding.

[Glenski]

I have not finished reading that web site, but it is increcibly one-sided, which flies in the face of all fair reasoning or debating. And, its wording is slyly written to insinuate so many evil practices in the world, that I can hardly keep from laughing when I read it.

Let's just deal with one (major) item here -- its disclaimer:

The decision regarding whether or not to vaccinate is a personal one. The authors of the Thinktwice Global Vaccine Institute are neither lawyers nor health practitioners, and make no claims in this regard. Therefore, none of the information on this website should be construed as legal or medical advice. Nor does anyone associated with this website recommend for or against vaccines. If you have questions regarding any of the information on this website, research immunizations to a greater degree so that you can make a wise and informed choice.

The last sentence allows them to safely cover their butts. The second and third sentences (my underlines) are incredibly important and should be taken very seriously when people try to take this web site seriously. Why AREN'T the authors medical doctors (or even affiliated with them? Heck, I'd even buy that to some degree!)?

And, if none of this is to be construed as medical advice, why is it all dedicated to giving such? Very shady. Not to mention that pretty much all of the documents you have to buy come from one publisher.

[cha muir]

Glenski, You are criticising the site on the grounds that they are not medical doctors... I dont understand..does that mean that if people aren't doctors they can't talk about, understand and come up with meaningful information? Surely you don't believe this.

Surely you don't believe that evil doesn't exist? That's the greatest trick of the devil:to convince you he dosn't exist.

Laughing? When i read the site, all the innocent children damaged and dead after receiving bad vaccines, I want to cry. To try to ignore the evidence, and keep it from coming to light is reprehensible. Laughing?
Shame on you Glenski! Shame on you!

Fair reasoning and debating? You entered the "debate" loudly declaring that We were "dead Wrong" and that you were an expert, refuting everything I said while never articulating a stance of your own. What are you trying to say? Simply that the opposition is wrong and that you are right? Right about what? the oppossition being absolutely wrong?

You make the implication that the purveyors of "anti-vaccine" information are doing it for the money to be had in selling books and pamphlets. What about the 800 million annual profit made by Merck from selling vaccines? This seems like a sum of money far more likely to corrupt than whatever riches you imagine are to be made selling saaid propoganda.

Gugelhuph exresses his anger about "quacks and Charlatans" out to make money. Who could disagree? We need good doctors. We don't need people who are in the health business to make money using inferior healing, dangerous techniques and products.. . this kind of behaviour is inexcusable.

i must go to class now. i wish you al the best. I know its very difficult to read and think about such a topic. I wish all of you and yours vibrant health and happiness.

cha

[ls650]

[khmerhit]

Er, but you arent a newborn baby.

[ls650]

[Sherri]

For the record my children are being vaccinated according to schedule. My son is getting polio drops next week. People of my generation, living in the west, cannot remember what it was like living with childhood diseases, we don't know how scary it is to live in fear of polio or whooping cough (for example). I would imagine that the parents in developing countries would give their right arm to get their children vaccinated. I don't buy into the scare tactics of the anti-vaccine crowd--of course that is my choice.

Also in Japan, at least, newborns do not get vaccinations, the first is for an infant form of TB at 4 months.

For another point of view see:
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/reprints/vaccine.html
Sherri

[cha muir]

[cha muir]

Dear Sherri,

Thanks for that link. I took a quick look. Here's one thing that struck me. Under the section on Hep B, it states that children are at low risk. However, it is now standard for newborns to receive it because it is easier to give it to children than to drug addicts. It also states that there are no adverse reactions to the shot. This information is contradicted by the testimony and investigations outlined in the introductory message in this thread. Why such disparate information? what about the man whose daughter dies after taking the Hep B, and all the othe cases of illnesses and deaths after taking the vaccine? Is he making this up as a "scare tactic". and if so, Why? Delusion? Unscientific Methods? Maliciousness?
And if there is information available about adverse reactions why does the FDA not report it in this report? Profit. Government business collusion?
One would hate to think so. Caveat Emptor.


cha

[Sherri]

cha muir
As I think I have said, you are free to make your own decisions on the matter of vaccines. I just wanted to contribute to the thread and offer an alternative website to the one you put up. I can't answer your questions as I am not a medical professional. I have no idea why that man's daughter died and neither do you. What about all of the children who needlessly died or suffered permanent damage from polio, measles and whooping cough? Your website doesn't deal with that and you seem to have conveniently forgotten it. Have you ever seen a child with the whooping cough? Do you know anyone who had polio? People don't get these diseases anymore, they have been nearly eradicated in the developing world.

This is a quote from my source:
"Measles, for instance, had dropped to a record low of fewer than 1,500 cases in 1983, according to CDC. A resurgence of measles between 1989
and 1991, however, resulted in 55,000 cases and 132 deaths, mostly among unvaccinated babies and toddlers. In urban areas, minority children are four to nine times as likely to get measles as white children."

Every one of those parents would have their own story to tell of their sorrow of having their child die from measles. It works both ways. It is just that I and many others choose the vaccinations because I think they work and the risk of getting the disease is higher than the risk of complications. It is a risk every parent takes with their children.

One more link:
http://www.unicef.org/immunization/

Quote:
"Immunization has achieved real success in the past 20 years, and today vaccines protect nearly three-quarters of the world�s children against major childhood illnesses. Yet, every year, more than 2 million children die from diseases that could have been prevented by inexpensive vaccines."

Are you saying that 2 million children are dying every year because they were immunized?

I have a daughter who has been in the hospital for the last 2 months. Modern medicine and medication saved her life. In her ward there are children recovering from various cancers. I see them fighting for their lives every day and yes, they are taking drugs made by those b astard profit-seeking pharmaceutical companies. I for one am glad they are around that the drugs were available for our children.
Sherri

[cha muir]

Hi Sherri, I see this is a very personal topic for you. I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's illness and glad she is recovering (thanks to modern medicine). My questions were not directed to you per se, they are, however, real questions. I don't think we need to be medical professionals to talk about the issues. I think lay people should get involved and ask questions. One of the shortcomings of modern medicine is its hierarchy which insists that patients accept the doctor's views without questions. I think the crux of the issue is that people need to look into it and decide for themselves.

As far as the man's daughter dying: what do you mean I don't know why she died. This is lke the tobacco companies refuting all claims that smoking causes cancer. How does one establish proof in these cases?
The fact remains that people, especially children, get sick and die from vaccines. Especially dangerous are multiple vaccines , up to six at once, which are given for CONVENIENCE and which can overwhelm immature immune systems.

As far as the diseases causing illnesses and death, of course we have'nt forgotten about them. My sympathies go out to all sufferers. Nobody, NOBODY is saying that all vaccinations are bad. This would be ridiculous. But there are problems that people should be aware of.

i read the FDA website about the successes of vaccines. how could we argue against this? but i am suspicious when it reports that there are no side effects with the HEP B virus. isn't the FDA the same organization that approved of Thalidimide? Did anyone see the Time picture of a tanker spraying DDT on a beach and a large group of children running and playing in the gas cloud? I think it is not enough to look to the FDA as your health watchdog.

You make a point about people in the developing world "willing to give their right arm for vaccines for their children" Everybody wants the best for their children. No one wants to see their children sick. This is why people get vaccines right? It might seem hard for some to imagine that people DON'T get vaccines for the same reason, but that is the case.

BTW. Eradication of certain diseases in the western world is not just due to vaccines. It also is due to improved hygeine and nutrition.

Good luck to you and your family,

cha

[gugelhupf]

From my previous posts it should be fairly clear which side of the fence I'm on regarding the vaccines issue, however I must say that I'm surprised that very young infants are routinely vaccinated against Hep B in parts of the US. I can only speak for the British and German healthcare systems, but here newborn babies only receive this vaccine if the mother tests positive for Hep B antigens, while only those infants living in close family contact with Hep B would normally be immunised. The full criteria are available form the British National Formulatory www.bnf.org

[Glenski]

cha muir,