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artemisia
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world
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 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| I'm thinking an Education degree and a TESOL cert would be a great way to proceed ........ I'm thinking the Education Degree over a TESOL degree would afford me the option of still performing some technical training on the side, or more teaching options state-side if I end up going back. |
It sounds to me like you got it right first time. You�ve obviously put a great deal of thought into this. It might be possible to include ESOL as a minor as part of a B.Ed (or just do a separate certificate) but I�d go for a major that interests you if you wish to eventually have the option of teaching in the States.
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| I will get over $100k in college money from that new GI Bill and I'm not going to skip out on that kind of benefit. (beats the $12k I signed up for in 1993). |
Fantastic! That plus already having a military pension (if I�ve understood correctly) will make undertaking study so much easier and worthwhile.
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| One thing I would like to finally have is freedom. A typical 9-5 job with 10-20 days vacation per year doesn't sound very free to me. |
That�s understandable after 18 years of what must have been quite a regimented existence. My own experience of working in Japan is out-dated now but I gather you do have the option of getting a work visa that�s not dependant on an employer once you�re qualified or have sufficient experience.
Wanting a bit more freedom with teaching probably does entail being a freelancer wherever it�s legally possible for you to be that. Having an employer gives you more stability obviously but not the same kind of freedom, usually. That comes from years of experience and qualifications and getting a nice uni job with lower hours and long holidays � not so easy for anyone to find these days but it also depends on where you go, of course. However, to set up as a freelancer will take time to build up contacts and students and often taking that first teaching job you don�t really want can help give you that � especially if you don�t speak any of the language. At least you�ll have the pension to fall back on if it all goes very slowly at the beginning. I don�t know if Japan is the best option but, after qualifying, possibly taking that not very wonderful job that first comes along will help you make some local contacts and give you a feel for the teaching environment. An initial job is also likely to be a big help with getting accommodation and generally settling in.
I assume you�re planning on doing your studies in the U.S so I�d suggest finding out about international TESOL conferences/ job fairs etc. there and turning up to one or two, if it�s practical, while studying and with a resume ready. You might make some important contacts that way as well as help clarify where�s best to go post degree. Good luck with it all � you have quite a lot of options and it all sounds quite exciting. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Zero wrote: |
| Sorry, nothing personal toward anybody, but I have to call B.S. While ESL certainly has its challenges, I do not think it's fair to compare them to the kind of challenges one would face in an 18-year Navy career. Some fields are, quite simply, harder than others, and ESL is neither all that hard nor all that grueling. I think this guy can handle whatever the field throws at him, with a little appropriate training. |
Actually, making the transition from career military to civilian live is VERY DIFFICULT and many people take YEARS to transition and never do it well.
It is not what ESL will throw at him but what civy life tosses his way that will cause the majority of the bumps in his road. It is tough to go from PO or CPO to just another Joe that falls in somewhere at the bottom of the pile.
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| I asgree. The issue becomes that as a TEFL teacher you don't have the US govt behind you for support for housing, local life, etc. YOU have to do everything by yourself. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'll chime in on the 'crying foul' theme.
The psychology of any individual transitioning from any particular field into ESL/EFL is impossible to define, certainly on such VERY sketchy acquaintance as we have on this board!!
I do not believe that, in general, ESL/EFL teachers are qualified to say who may or may not transition easily into the field. It's a highly individual thing.
This OP has obviously got significant resources and has indicated that he is considering his options in a highly rational way. Sure, I also discourage someone who states openly that he/she is in it for the party, essentially. As I do would-be teachers unwilling to gain quals, or stating that he/she is running from something at 'home.' That is clearly not the case here.
In any case, I've personally worked with three absolutely excellent and well-adjusted teachers for whom the military was a first career.
Our role is to provide whatever info we can regarding qualifications and job prospects, but I do not believe we are qualified to give what is essentially very personal and individual advice regarding how the transition might affect any particular candidate emotionally. |
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artemisia
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| This OP has obviously got significant resources |
That's just what I thought, too. He sounds like he has a lot going for him - financially and professionally - a lot more than many do anyway. In fact, his position is quite enviable in some respects. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Zero wrote: |
| Sorry, nothing personal toward anybody, but I have to call B.S. While ESL certainly has its challenges, I do not think it's fair to compare them to the kind of challenges one would face in an 18-year Navy career. Some fields are, quite simply, harder than others, and ESL is neither all that hard nor all that grueling. I think this guy can handle whatever the field throws at him, with a little appropriate training. |
Nothing personal taken, Zero.
However, as much as I admit that a military career could certainly have its challenges, let's look at things as objectively as possible.
DougPR is almost 40, not the HS teenager he was when he started life in the Navy. He'll be in his 40s when he graduates from college if he decides to go that route.
1. The outlook of a teen in the Navy is a whole lot different than a middle-aged person.
2. That middle-aged person may have a smattering of "teaching" under his belt, unlike the greenhorn teen he started out as, but it's not the same teaching that he'll face in a foreign land. Quite far from it.
3. The Navy paid him on time and in full. The Navy sheltered him with a bunk and 3 squares a day, gave him clothing and a regimented list of duties and (presumably) enough training to get to where he is now. None of this is what he will face as a newbie teacher abroad. It'll all be from square one again.
4. He'll start off like most newcomers, in entry level jobs (ALT or language school instructor) unless he is lucky enough to get some business English job. His boss/manager could be half his age and nearly as inexperienced if it's a foreigner, and God-knows-what if it's a local. It will not be an experienced, trained, dedicated-to-the-job captain or major or even second lieutenant.
5. There will be very little in the way of security in many countries, as far as long-term employment goes. No central organization to go to for appeals when things go sour, and often a wishy-washy admin instead of a coordinated by-the-book military attitude.
6. There will be language communication problems with local co-workers, not to mention students, neighbors, shopkeepers, etc., unlike what he has faced previously.
7. Just living in a foreign land will entail holding a visa, not American citizenship. Lose the visa and he will have to leave the country. Naturegirl321 mentioned the possibility of a retirement visa, but there are none in Japan, where he seems intent on living.
8. His years of "mostly middle management" will not compare to the type of business management practices he will face in a foreign land.
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| I'm pretty sure that after naval deployments, crazy watch hours, horrible bosses with no "I quit" option, and sleeping with 100 other dudes in a cramped bunk environment, I can handle a lot. And I doubt the workload would even approach what I've experienced. |
No one here is saying you've had it easy in the Navy, if that's what you think. It's good to see someone who doesn't come to the forum and start out with "I'm scared as hell, so please advise me!" However, I have to wonder if DougPR has really explored and researched what life as an EFL teacher abroad (especially in Japan, and especially at this point in time) is really like. I welcome him to visit the Japan forum.
For the second time, I will ask him to let us know more about his views. I previously wrote: Please help us to understand your view of a career at 38 in TEFL. I've taken the time to give advice from my 13 years of teaching in Japan. Do me the courtesy of answering my question so we know where you are coming from. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| For the second time, I will ask him to let us know more about his views. I previously wrote: Please help us to understand your view of a career at 38 in TEFL. I've taken the time to give advice from my 13 years of teaching in Japan. Do me the courtesy of answering my question so we know where you are coming from. |
OP doesn't owe anyone here, and is not obliged to give answers that he may well not have formulated yet. Considering a transition from any career to ESL/EFL is a process, and it's entirely rational not to have any firmly fixed expectations in the research phase. To demand that a candidate post his/her 'views,' which I read as 'expectations,' seems unreasonable to me.
Once again, the transition from any other career to 'ours' is a very individual process, and teachers are not likely qualified to probe or give answers to the question of how likely the profession is to meet whatever expectations a would-be teacher may have, other than very general ones such as required quals and potential salaries, and perhaps some general info regarding students in a particular region. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Spiral.
Nearly all the ex-military colleagues I've worked with have had their heads screwed on right and did quite well for themselves in EFL. Sensible and organised - capable of following instruction and using the EFL training they received. Proper lesson-planning. Sounds like a big cliche, but there you go. Very little in the way of teen discipline problems.
Not to mention the niche market opportunities - military English.
Good luck to the OP. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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spiral and Sashadroogie,
Let's agree to disagree on the fact that DougPR "owes" us any explanations. In my opinion, if someone comes here and asks for advice such as he did, I think it behooves them to give us a bit more information than he has, so that we can provide the best applicable advice.
As for "teen discipline problems", I don't know where you got the idea that I thought he would show those in himself.
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| Considering a transition from any career to ESL/EFL is a process, and it's entirely rational not to have any firmly fixed expectations in the research phase. |
No, I disagree. To not have any expectations is unreasonable, in my opinion. People have some idea of what they can expect in changing a career, so why not tell us what it is?
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| teachers are not likely qualified to probe or give answers to the question of how likely the profession is to meet whatever expectations a would-be teacher may have |
How do you figure? Many teachers are involved in the hiring process, and many long-timers have gone through it often enough, such that both types of teachers know very well that "probing" for a teacher's expectations is part of the hiring process. Look at the many questions on the JET Program application just as one example. And, when foreign candidates apply for other jobs, one of the most common questions for them is, "Why did you choose this country?" Another one, this time for people who change careers, is "Why TEFL?" Might as well give DougPR a chance now to speak his mind and let us in on this so that we can offer constructive advice on how to handle himself, or to dispel any false expectations that he may have. I find that sort of thing one of the main helpful reasons sites such as this exist, to give newcomers the opportunity to learn from the seasoned vets before they leap into the unknown and make mistakes. Who else are they going to get such "research" info from? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Many teachers are involved in the hiring process, and many long-timers have gone through it often enough, such that both types of teachers know very well that "probing" for a teacher's expectations is part of the hiring process. |
We are not in a position here of vetting people for hire. Many/most of the would-be teachers who come here are in the research phase of the process, which is where I read to OP to be. It's several steps yet before such a candidate will be ready to state that he/she wishes to have this/that specific job.
In the research phase, expressing many expectations simply opens onesself up to a bit of ridicule - 'What, you think it's like this??!! Well, let me tell you, you can forget about..." At this stage, it's simply unnecessary.
In any case, no, I am certain that no OP 'owes' us any personal details or detailed info on his/her expectations. Again, it's NOT a job interview, and we are not in the position on this board of being on a hiring committee. That's a different job (and I obviously have done it for some years as well, but only when I have CVs and candidates in front of me). |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| In the research phase, expressing many expectations simply opens onesself up to a bit of ridicule |
Really!? I don't see how you came to that conclusion. In fact, I think just the opposite. It opens the person's eyes, helps them to prepare better during their research phase, and perhaps explore options they had not considered.
The Cafe is not a vetting process for specific jobs. True. However, it appears that you and I are sometimes in the position of hiring people, so it would benefit the curious to hear from us whether someone's expectations are on or off target. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
As for "teen discipline problems", I don't know where you got the idea that I thought he would show those in himself.
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I didn't. Ex-military EFLers rarely have problems teaching teenagers. Good classroom management, well able to maintain discipline etc. Unlike other more unfortunate teachers. Could be worthy of serious research - is there a causal link? |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| I still think the biggest issue is that before, he had the US govt behind him. Now, he'll be on his own. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| I think if untrained civvies can manage without their governments' help abroad, then so can the OP... |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| I think if untrained civvies can manage without their governments' help abroad, then so can the OP... |
It's just my opinion. after so many years of relying on the govt, it would be hard to change. At least for me. |
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