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isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
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 Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: Another teacher being held in Saudi Arabia |
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So, are people inside the tragic Kingdom still blocked from access to Daves? Is anyone reading this board actually considering a stint in the Kingdom? Here is a new installment in the ongoing saga of western English teachers in Saudia. This teacher has been held for over 457 days. If the company you work for denies you an exit visa, you are effectively a prisoner.
http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article363824.ece
American teacher claims she's detained against her will
By MD RASOOLDEEN | ARAB NEWS
Published: Apr 17, 2011 22:31 Updated: Apr 18, 2011 11:14
RIYADH: An American woman who came to Riyadh on a teaching contract has alleged her sponsor detained her in the Kingdom against her will for at least 457 days as of Sunday.
�I arrived in Saudi Arabia on Oct. 22, 2009, to teach English to university students through a private company in a program undertaken on the initiative of Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah mandated to the Ministry of Higher Education.
�However, almost immediately after my arrival, I realized that the company was in no way capable of dealing with Western people in a humane manner. I wanted to leave Saudi Arabia. Things went from bad to worse.� |
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dutchman
Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| She could have asked the American embassy to arrange an exist visa for her. And also if you google her name, you'll see that Saudi Arabia is not the only GCC country in which she was detained against her will. |
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isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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OMG... I know this one. Am very familiar with her first stint in Kuwait. There seems to be a pattern to her problems.
Let me just say that having met her and knowing people who have worked with her... some people make their own bed...  But, the details are not appropriate for a public board. Another example of a person who should have had professional help long ago.
VS |
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isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:45 am Post subject: |
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I cannot even explain to people outside the Gulf how many emotionally unstable people are teaching there. When they run afoul of the system (most of us do at some time or another, the system being what it is) they end up really in trouble and without the personal resources to cope. The Kingdom can drive a saint crazy- imagine what damage it can do to those who already have problems.
I would suggest applicants be required to provide a mental health evaluation, but then they would be really short on English teachers.
Having said that. We have no way of getting her side of the story, so we should extend sympathy and withhold judgement. |
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blackwellben
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| isabel wrote: |
| We have no way of getting her side of the story, so we should extend sympathy and withhold judgement. |
We? Should?
I'm unsure why the subject heading of this thread uses the word another, as though a precedent were cited.
As it reads, the subject heading implies a fact, cites an Arab News article, and is answered by knowledgeable posters aware of the woman's prior claims of being detained elsewhere.
The subject heading ought to read: Another Teacher Claims... |
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isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| blackwellben wrote: |
| isabel wrote: |
| We have no way of getting her side of the story, so we should extend sympathy and withhold judgement. |
We? Should?
I'm unsure why the subject heading of this thread uses the word another, as though a precedent were cited.
As it reads, the subject heading implies a fact, cites an Arab News article, and is answered by knowledgeable posters aware of the woman's prior claims of being detained elsewhere.
The subject heading ought to read: Another Teacher Claims... |
Point taken. But I do know, personally, as I was there when it happened, of two other teachers being kept in the Kingdom against their wishes. Their exit visas were cancelled. In one case the teacher had to pay $6000 before being allowed to leave (he had given proper notice, had completely checked out of his job, and was leaving due to verifiable sexual and other harassment, which the school's admin seemed to accept).
Yes, either the person in question is being held as per her report, or she is mentally unstable, as other posters seem to suggest. Either way, she does get my sympathy instead of my judgement. Being mentally unstable and being at the mercy of Saudi auuthorities is worthy of a lot of sympathy. |
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blackwellben
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| isabel wrote: |
| Point taken. But I do know, personally...being at the mercy of Saudi auuthorities is worthy of a lot of sympathy. |
No, I don't think you have understood my "point".
Your thread's subject heading is misleading.
The heading states another teacher is being held.
In regard to another, you relate a first-hand experience of two cases, adding a detail of extortion to one, and no added information to another.
The "point" is not whether sympathy, instead of judgement, is appropriate, but whether you've re-worded the title of an Arab News article to serve a generalization that teachers in Saudi Arabia are at greater risk of being held against their will than, perhaps, a Korean hagwan.
Given Saudi Arabia is a "closed" country and its entrance and exit is regulated by sponsorship, what is of likelihood is someone unhappy in Saudi Arabia is subdued by paperwork and waiting times unlike anywhere else.
Stranger still, I'm perplexed by your stating at the same time
| isabel wrote: |
| I cannot even explain to people outside the Gulf how many emotionally unstable people are teaching there. |
Again, versus Korea? And were there more unstable people teaching in KSA, would this not support the conclusion of other posters that this woman's claims are exaggerated? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Are you just trying to pick an argument, BWB? 
I can have sympathy for the woman, even as I know directly of some of her history of self-inflicted problems. Common sense would tell most of us - if we had been entrapped by an employer in Kuwait in the past - to avoid Saudi, which is known for often unjustly refusing to allow teachers to leave.
VS |
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isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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I see that on other threads Mr. blackwellben has been asked if he is a recruiter or a manager. Funnily enough, I was wondering the same.
It seems that most of your posts are similarly combative. I am not so inclined. So this is the extent of what I have to say on the topic. I am sure that those seeking input on a decision to go to the Kingdom or not will rely on more that this thread. |
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blackwellben
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Are you just trying to pick an argument, BWB?
I can have sympathy for the woman, even as I know directly of some of her history of self-inflicted problems. Common sense would tell most of us - if we had been entrapped by an employer in Kuwait in the past - to avoid Saudi, which is known for often unjustly refusing to allow teachers to leave. |
Pick an argument? I believe I've responded to words of a post's heading not representative of my experience.
The OP cordially acknowledges the "point" only to re-iterate a "scary" characterization of work in the KSA.
A "saga" of which the OP offers a recent news article as evidence.
I argue further with this very post.
I call such discussion. Characterize it as picking a fight if you wish, though I suspect such avoids the issues (valid and invalid support of claims) to address "agenda" or the "motivation" of another poster. I'll refrain from terming it as ad hominem out of courtesy.
Patently, from the first framing of the post, the poster is of an opinion the KSA is a bad place to work. Why does anyone consider working there?
I have no problem with this. The opinion is as valid as any. The opinion seeks to inform and warn. Its sentiment is genuine. But is it factual?
My contention is with what support such opinions are expressed.
The OP takes as a foregone conclusion what you re-iterate in the words from your post I've italicized above.
But in my experience such words are convenient. Culturally biased and claimed flatly as fact.
I simply disagree. And, apparently, what content of my posts might be answered go ignored.
It is not enough to disagree and discuss points of view.
Sentiment seeks affiliation and dissent characterized by speculation beyond simple discussion--- a casting to what's "really" behind the words of others. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Dear blackwellben
If you ever run into lazycomputerkids and get into a conversation, Lord, I'd love to hear it.
Check out lazycomputerkids posts if the above puzzles you.
Regards,
John |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Survivors in KSA know that the secret is to be like Schwejk. Surviving as a Bohemian Corporal in the Austro-Hungarian Army and surviving as an EFLer in KSA require similar strategies.
Last edited by scot47 on Fri May 13, 2011 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Forget not what happened to the Danube Monarchy. They are now like unto Nineveh and Tyre. |
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