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Americans can't get a work visa?
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G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:18 am Post subject:

Kionon wrote:

Shimokitazawa wrote:

M_Almeida wrote:

Commonwealth speakers

Which countries would they be from - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh?

Kenya!

You do realize that English is one of the official languages of Kenya and is spoken as L1 by a substantial percentage of the population, don't you?

Kionon

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:31 am Post subject:

G Cthulhu wrote:

Kionon wrote:

Shimokitazawa wrote:

M_Almeida wrote:

Commonwealth speakers

Which countries would they be from - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh?

Kenya!

You do realize that English is one of the official languages of Kenya and is spoken as L1 by a substantial percentage of the population, don't you?

...Yes.

That was the whole point of saying Kenya.

gaijinalways

Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:00 am Post subject:

http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question69909.html

Quote:

You do realize that English is one of the official languages of Kenya and is spoken as L1 by a substantial percentage of the population, don't you?

Since when is 9% "substantial" ?

Andy123

Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject:

When the Japanese accept billions of US dollars from the military bases and have the largest export ratio to the US and they deny US people work visas? Screw them.

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject:

gaijinalways wrote:

Quote:

You do realize that English is one of the official languages of Kenya and is spoken as L1 by a substantial percentage of the population, don't you?

Since when is 9% "substantial" ?

Since in most countries anything over 5% is considered substantial by governments. I'm sorry that it doesn't meet your criteria. I'm sure the Kenyans will be excited about you telling them they're wrong. Rolling Eyes

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject:

Andy123 wrote:

When the Japanese accept billions of US dollars from the military bases and have the largest export ratio to the US and they deny US people work visas?

Screw them.

You might want to reverse your numbers there: The Japanese pay for over 80% of the costs of the US bases. US nationals don't deserve special treatment simply because they're American.

Kionon

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject:

G Cthulhu wrote:

Andy123 wrote:

When the Japanese accept billions of US dollars from the military bases and have the largest export ratio to the US and they deny US people work visas?

Screw them.

You might want to reverse your numbers there: The Japanese pay for over 80% of the costs of the US bases. US nationals don't deserve special treatment simply because they're American.

There's a difference between being a US national and being a US citizen. Just to be clear, you can be a national without being a citizen, although being a citizen means you already are a national. Kinda like trees and plants. All citizens are nationals, but not all nationals are citizens.

As for Americans deserving or getting special treatment, I agree, to a point in regards to the general population. On the other hand, Americans don't deserve special MIStreatment because they are Americans and that happens too. Not so much in Japan, but in many of the countries (European Union, I'm looking at you) I've been to an American passport seemed to require extra "attention" if not outright mockery.

As for Japan, Americans on SOFA do get special treatment. You don't need a visa. You don't need a Japanese drivers license or international permit to drive around Japan. You can bring in dependents and rent an apartment or house out in town. You can travel around the country with only your SOFA card. If you commit a crime or are accused of a crime, you cannot be prosecuted by the Japanese government, you must be returned to US Forces. Your dependents have precisely the same rights as you do for the most part, so if your children misbehave out in town the Japanese can do nothing (although your command most certainly will, up to and including deporting your children)... I could go on.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:08 pm Post subject:

Kionon wrote:

If you commit a crime or are accused of a crime, you cannot be prosecuted by the Japanese government, you must be returned to US Forces.

Oh, really? I don't think so.

http://www.japanbases.com/forums/aft/4855.aspx
NAHA, Okinawa � An Army staff sergeant was sentenced Friday to two years and eight months in a Japanese prison for killing a 66-year-old Okinawa man last November in a hit-and-run accident.

But we are getting way off topic here.

Kionon

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

Kionon wrote:

If you commit a crime or are accused of a crime, you cannot be prosecuted by the Japanese government, you must be returned to US Forces.

Really. Perhaps I should have phrased it as, "You can be prosecuted, but only if the US forces agree." If the offense is relatively minor, or if there are questions of Japanese "retaliation" generally the US Forces bring significant influence to bear. This is one of the reasons why there is so much resentment among Japanese nationals. The perception of a get out of jail free card.

SOFA specifically states that you are correct:

Quote:

(b) the authorities of Japan shall have jurisdiction over the members of the United States armed forces, the civilian component, and their dependents with respect to offenses committed within the territory of Japan and punishable by the law of Japan.

But in reality, and among other agreements signed, I have not seen this as true. In general, I have seen most service members turned over, almost immediately, to Shore Patrol. Indeed, in my time in Yokosuka I almost never saw Japanese police, except for those at the front gates, but I saw plenty of Shore Patrol, some of which I was on friendly terms with. Even though a law may be broken, whether Japanese or US, the service member is responsible for both, and will be arrested by Shore Patrol.

Quote:

(c) The custody of an accused member of the United States armed forces or the civilian component over whom Japan is to exercise jurisdiction shall, if he is in the hands of the United States, remain with the United States until he is charged by Japan.

and

Quote:

9. Whenever a member of the United States armed forces the civilian component or a dependent is prosecuted under the jurisdiction of Japan he shall be entitled:

(a) to a prompt and speedy trial;
(b) to be informed, in advance of trial, of the specific charge or charges made against him;
(c) to be confronted with the witnesses against him;
(d) to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, if they are within the jurisdiction of Japan;
(e) to have legal representation of his own choice for his defense or to have free or assisted legal representation under the condi-tions prevailing for the time being in Japan;
(f) if he considers it necessary, to have the services of a compe-tent interpreter; and
(g) to communicate with a representative of the Government of the United States and to have such a representative present at his trial.

We're way off topic, but I was giving examples of how certain Americans already get treated differently. Sometimes that treatment is "good" sometimes it is "bad."

gaijinalways

Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:02 am Post subject:

G Cthulhu posted/b]

Quote:

So you seem to be referring to the government or governments using it this way. Mind telling us which ones?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/substantial

3
a : possessed of means : well-to-do
b : [b]considerable in quantity : significantly great <earned a substantial wage>

Quote:

The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language estimates English-speakers in Kenya to constitute 9 percent of the population of 25 million, or about 2.24 million people, while the BBC World Service estimates 3.4 million adult English speakers there.

Now I know there are about 2 million foreigners in Japan, but I have never heard someone refer to them/us as a substantial number.

http://bionicbong.com/japan/foreigners-in-japan-and-where-do-we-stand/

[b]G Cthulhu posted/b]

Quote:

You might want to reverse your numbers there: The Japanese pay for over 80% of the costs of the US bases. US nationals don't deserve special treatment simply because they're American.

Mind showing us where you got this % from please (by the way, I have no idea what & each side pays)?

Kionon

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:58 am Post subject:

gaijinalways wrote:

Mind showing us where you got this % from please (by the way, I have no idea what & each side pays)?

Global Security says that in 1995, Japan paid $4.2 Billion out of $7.6 Billion for the cost of 91 distinct US installations. However, many newspapers (Japan Times, Japan Today, Mai Nichi, etc, etc) report that this has dropped dramatically due to decreasing Japanese budgets. As of January 21, 2011, Japan had agreed only to pay $2.6 Billion, but I have no idea out of what total amount that is. Given that the US is shrinking forces both at home and abroad by a significant margin, I would think it is a safe bet that the overall number has also fallen, and the US is also paying less.

It's certainly not 80%. I'm horrible at math, but I think the 1995 numbers come out to 55%.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/japan-us-poised-to-keep-tokyos-base-hosting-costs-at-current-size
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-01/21/c_13701622.htm

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