Job Discussion Forums

[psychedelic]

Hello all!,
I would REALLY appreciate your solid advice. A Chinese school manager is interested in hiring me. (Xi' an) He explained that I'd have to provide the housing money to cover six months. The school will provide a monthly housing allowance to me. He understands that it's a lot of money for me to provide up front, so he can advance me some funds. BUT, he wants to keep my passport until I'm able to pay back the loan. I'm not comfortable with that. * Have any of you ever heard of a Chinese employer making such a request? While in So. Korea, I was advanced money a few times and never asked for my passport. * Comments? Please reply ASAP.

Thanks!

[daCabbie]

Don't do it.

Drop the job and find another.

Xi'an is notorious for criminal behavior in private language schools. Search Dave's.

Run. Don't walk away from this job offer. It will bring you nothing but headaches.

[M3tt]

I can understand his wanting some kind of 'collateral' for the loan but other than necessary visa/RP procedures your passport is the one thing you should absolutely, positively, never, ever, at any time, under any circumstances give to another person to hold. That's not really "your" passport; it belongs to Uncle Sam and you're pretty much screwed if you are overseas and don't have it when you need it.

Or let him keep it and, depending on where you live, forget about....
staying in a hotel
traveling by air or soft sleeper
leaving the country
doing any type of banking other than small deposits and ATM withdrawals.

Not to mention how much money he could get by selling it and then telling you it was 'lost'. Hell, a good copy is worth money in some places.

Not a good idea.


Really.


Trust us on this.

[JamesD]

I'll second and third those. If you think this guy is ok then maybe work out some kind of deal like a major salary withholding so it's paid back fast.
Nothing good can come of him holding your passport. If things go south then you're out of luck because you can't even buy a plane ticket. He's got you by the short and curlies.

[bythebookie]

Personally, I would never allow anyone to keep my passport. However, I think it is entirely reasonable and understandable for an employer to request your passport as a form of collateral for a large sum of money.

I see nothing shady, as has been implied, with this form of security - assuming only this as a fact - without supporting proof of fraud or other illegal actions on part of this employer.

It is up to you and you alone to accept his terms - if you don't like it, then move on elsewhere.

"He's got you by the shorts and curlies." ?? Really? "If things go south..." ? Really ? Where is the harm in offering/supplying collateral for a large sum of money as suggested here? Where is the responsibility of the employee to honor his/her contract terms and stay the full period of employment? You have a perfectly valid legal method to cancel your contract should the need arise and having the passport returned to you - should they refuse after a legal method of contract withdrawal to return the passport, there are methods of recourse. This is the problem with a forum like this - you think that just because it's a situation that your instinct tells you is fishy that you can just blabber whatever you want. And THAT is pathetically sad.

So, please! stop making claims that such an employer or method is hands-down deceptive or fraudulent without providing actual proof that this is what is happening.

[flyingscotsman]

Don't do it.

JUST DON'T DO IT.

If they really want to hire you they will pay for your apartment. Or you can find someone to share with , save some money, then get your own apt once you have saved enough.

Follow your intuition on this AND the advice of those that know.

[sistercream]

No way would I hand over my passport as collateral. I'd sooner borrow the money from people back "home" (wherever that is). Even if your boss is 100% honest (and in China that's a huge "if") there's no way to guarantee that everyone else in the office is also honest, or even careful.
And, as already pointed out, if your passport goes AWOL from Xi'an, it's a long bus or hard seater train trip back to Beijing to get your embassy to sort a new one (and you won't be able to stay in a hotel while they do it, either).

[drrjon]

NO WAY

[mat chen]

As an international traveller who has been in over 50 countries, I know the rules of my government. It is clearly stated that your passport belongs to you. I was confronted with this in Taiwan when my employer lost my passport. I was forced to say I had lost it. So when I ran into this situation in China I had big problems because I told my boss she could have it but I would have to go with it. The job was horror. Later I saw that the school had changed leadership many times.
I strongly refute the previous poster who said this is OK to hold on to a passport of another person.
If someone of authority asks for in in China you are in deep do do for not having it on your person 24 hours a day. A catch22 isn't it?

[daCabbie]

I might be mistaken, but I do believe a school is required to have housing. This is a requirement to get the license to employee foreign teachers.

It is something that is always overlooked for mill-jobs in big cities where the market is stronger. But is a factor in this argument.

Sorry, I cannot quote a source. Just another grain of salt.

[JamesD]

Collateral on a loan is one thing. Totally agree and would never argue.

However, the OP specifically says his passport is the collateral and that's something else entirely. While I might consider letting someone hold a personal item as collateral I don't know of any situation in which I would use my primary ID and citizenship documentation. Your passport is not just something you may have to use once in a while, it's the single most important item a foreigner carries because without it you're screwed. Anyone who thinks it's anything less is clueless.

[choudoufu]

how much money are we talking about here?

six months rent plus a month or two deposit?

how much is the rent? 1000? 2000? 3000?

you don't have that much cash?

THEY don't have that much cash?

that would be, what....two months pay?

if you're not comfortable, then pass.
no passport, but he can hold your bicycle
as collateral.

*********************************

are all employers required to provide housing?

or are they required to provide for housing, meaning
they must (should?) give unto the FT an apartment
OR a housing allowance?

[Guerciotti]

No.
They can withhold your monthly salary. What more do they need? Sounds wrong.
With your passport held hostage and large withholdings from your salary, you might want to go exchange a hundred dollars or euro for some kuai so you can buy food every day, but the bank won't exchange without your passport, so you end up eating noodles and cabbage for two weeks?
That sounds like fun.
I say no.
If you find trouble (not saying you do or will) and someone wants to see your passport, you will find out the current fine for being without it.
What if the job starts messing with you? Pardon my slang .... let's see, for example they give you more hours at the same pay and you want to leave but they have your passport. Do you think they will give it to you without a fight?
Suppose they simply decide to pay you less? You know how it goes. "We're sorry we can only pay you ..."
No.
No.
No.

[Teatime of Soul]

The landlord's request is improper.

It is his responsibility to provide teacher housing. That's what being SAFEA licensed is all about, accepting responsibility for working and living conditions of the FT.

The enormous hole in his logic is this, if an FT ran away after the first month, would the school lose the apartment? Of course not. The school would simply hire another FT and place him in the apartment. So the maximum loss to the school is a loss of the four to six weeks of use they would be paying on for an empty apartment

I suspect this is the real story:

1. The school probably outright owns the apartment and simply banks the "deposit".

or

2. The deposit has certainly already been paid by the school, no Chinese landlord will deal with a foreign employee when he can deal directly with the school, who signs the real lease.

This is a fig leaf of an excuse to charge a "midnight run" deposit. Simply a means to control the employee.

I'd counter by asking for a years wages being deposited with my western attorney in case the school went bankrupt.

Run Away.

[knight4ever]

Your passport is the property of your government and your means to cross borders. Any employer that requires me to give my passport for "collateral" can take a hike.