Job Discussion Forums

[yellow earth]

Somewhere on this board there is a post titled "Is anyone happy in China?" This is a similar post. Like many other people do, I look at the job postings, find a job that sounds promising in a decent city, then I go to the forum to research the company. Without fail, every time, there is a list of "Horror Stories" on each company. Everyone from Aston, Wall Street, Web, and so on.
Could it be that there are happy teachers in China, working in these "Mills", just not posting? My confidence in going to China is shrinking. If anyone is doing OK, how about a simple post like "I work in (city) for (company). It's OK."
My sympathy goes out to those of you stuck with crappy working conditions, bosses, contracts and all of that. Hope you find something better.

[bnej]

I think it really has a lot to do with ones expectations coming to China, and how flexible you are at adapting to a new culture/place/work environment. I think a lot of people come expecting the 'ideal' 10,000RMB/month for 12 hours a week with 4 months paid holiday, and expecting society to function the same way in China as it does in their native developed countries.

It also has to do with the fact that the experiences people have in those big organizations depends more on the local branch owner than the big parent company. If you have a reasonable, decent natured branch owner, you'll probably have a good experience. If your immediate boss is an *beep* and con artist who loves to nickel and dime FT's, your experience will be considerably crappier.

My criteria for a good employer is
- Pays on time.
- Not too many [unpaid] extra curricular marketing events/activities/meetings/office hours.
- Boss/manager who listens to reason on important issues and won't say no to you for the sake of laziness/ineptness.
- Adheres to the contract for the most part.
- Will help in repairing broken stuff in the apt.
- Proper legal working visa/FE cert/residence permit.

That said, I'm content with where I'm at. I'm in Jilin at New Horizon. There's one horror post about this place in the past, but I'm not sure how valid that story is, and how applicable it is to most FT's coming here.

[MisterButtkins]

To be honest some people just like to whine. A lot of people who come here, for whatever reason, don't like it. Some of the people who don't like it here complain incessantly about everything and anything, including their current employer. I think every FT has probably run into one of these people, and there have been some on this board as well.

There is currently a complaint online about my current school where the disgruntled former employee complains that my school violated the contract because in the contract it said that there were three English TV channels in the apartment and his apartment only had two, and the school refused to fix it. I find it difficult to imagine something more petty someone could complain about.

For all the horror stories you read online about people getting exploited by language company X I've only actually met about 6-7 people, out of dozens of FTs, who felt they were being exploited. Out of them, I believe one had a college degree.

[Priesty]

Yeah, be careful with forums. The people who usually love what they do, don't post because their usually having too good of a time.

I personally decided to go to Sichuan Province and love it here. But I also dislike International cities, I will visit them, but I can't live in them. And I wanted to be close to Tibet. I think there is a place for anyones lifestyle in China and China is a wonderful place. At least where I am at, the people are extremely friendly and my phone is full of Chinese friends.

My school is very accommodating and I have no problems at all. I'm slowly falling in love with where I am at and enjoy all the mountains that surround my area. There is a lot of natural beauty here.

But what it really comes down to is how well you can adapt and how much you want to immerse yourself in the culture.

[DosEquisX]

What pretty much everybody else said.

The positive, upbeat teachers who enjoy their jobs have better things to do than whine on an internet forum. So, you won't hear much in the way of great experiences.

While I am not too happy with where I live, there's enough to do to keep me satisfied on my free time. My boss is pretty laissez-faire and so long as you don't create a scene and just do your job, you're okay in his book. It's not the ideal job, but it's hardly bad by any stretch of the imagination.

[daCabbie]

Almost five years now and I finally feel comfortable. I am not an economic success, but I enjoy it most of the time.

There has been good schools and bad. Good FAO's and bad. Good student's and bad.

I would have done some things differently, but I wouldn't ask for anything different.

Where will I go from here? Another 5 years in China, I hope. Maybe get married and start a family. Maybe start a business and try to get rich. I don't know.

My advice to newbies: Be patient. Things often work themselves out. Make friends. Mingle. Don't worry so much. Give it time. And most of all; be patient.

EDIT: Sorry, I just reread the OP. I don't work at a mill job. I misread the post. I have worked for international schools, colleges and unis. After five years of beat downs I sometimes consider it simply for the money. I figure a beat-down is a beat-down. You are gonna get and give them no matter. The above advice still applies.

[nickpellatt]

You can find good training centre jobs ... Ive had one, and I will return to the same place later this year. Im not going to 'promote' my old employer in a thread that is specifically asking for it, but if you read/have read my posts...Its not hard to discover where and who.

I would personally choose a training centre over a University or public school job any day of the week. But ... I think I am the exception rather than the rule! Training centres and language mills get a bad rap on the forums IMO, and get totally slated on other forums....and I personally dont think this is always fair.

Few or any of the schools in China are perfect, but work in a training centre offers more chance of working with small classes streamed by ability. It offers a greater chance of having set material to follow, and a greater likelihood of lesson observations, student feedback forms and teacher assessments. In some training centres (Wall Street as an example), there is a greater need for an EFL specific qualification such as a CELTA.

All of those things are massive benefits to me, and I want them as part of my job. Additional training and teacher workshops would be a huge bonus too!

HOWEVER...many, the majority even, of people teaching in China would see some of these things as a massive disadvantage and the general environment of language centres is not really what they look for in a job.

I think all reviews, both positive and negative have to be taken with a pinch of salt...and all schools need careful consideration before taking a job with them. Think long and hard about the type of work, and the environment you work in. Talk to teachers at the school, see what crops up on the forums.

[slareth]

I would not say I have a success story but I am happy working at language 'mills' and would not likely consider working for a Uni. There are so many private training centers to choose from, if you are unhappy for whatever reason just walk away. Sure, some can be sleazy but Uni's are not all rainbows and sunshine.

Scummy people are scummy.
Decent people are decent.

It all depends.

I have been here a year and a week and have found my wife and will be moving into our new house as soon as the new paint smell goes away. I have more work than I want (have to pay for the house somehow though) and still have to refuse classes and private gigs. Granted, this is mostly due to my wife though

In my limited experience, the folks who create and give the most trouble and negativity are those who get it back in return. This does not mean if you are a super person you won't get screwed. It just means that from what I have seen, those who always find problems and things to bitch about and be unhappy about will certainly find them. Does not really matter where they go though.

I will not tell you where I work, not because it is some secret or I am afraid you'll try and take a job from me but because my happiness has no relation to your own.

Good luck.

Also...keep in mind. There are 'horror stories' for just about any company in any country.

[Teatime of Soul]

People who are happily employed rarely see the need to advertise the fact - their lives speak for themselves.

Malcontents however, are always on the lookout for an ear to bend.

You're trying to listen for the wheel that doesn't squeak. A harder task.

There are a lot of contented people here in China.

[Gamecock]

There is more money to be made in the training centers, but not many people stay in them for more than a year or two simply because the work is harder, the hours are more, and the vacations are short. (Not all mind you, but generally). It really sucks when most of your vacation time falls on the national holidays when it is nearly impossible to travel in China.

Mills are ok (and can be very good) if you are coming for a year or two if you want to travel a bit and explore another culture. However, they do tend to burn people out.

Teaching 20-25 hours a week plus 15 office hours sounds good on paper to someone back home. But teaching takes a lot of energy compared to many 40 hour weeks back home. It has a mental and physical aspect to it, compared to working 40 hours a week sitting at a desk, or 40 hours doing hard, mindless labor. Add to this living in a new culture where doing even simple tasks can take more time and energy (and frustration at times), culture shock, etc.

Don't get me wrong, there are many more difficult jobs than being an ESL teacher, but a lot of people who come abroad are surprised to find out how much it wears them down over a year. This is why people who fall in love or decide to stay in China for a longer term usually head to the the lower paying and less stressful university jobs and then pick up some side work on their own terms.

[7969]

[daCabbie]

[flyingscotsman]

I'd love ot go home but really in the USA now I just can't find many people to pay me $20 an hour to chat with them in a Starbucks for a few hours and I certainly can't find a 22 yr old sexy babe to sleep next to be every night ( for free...).

So China I stay.

Am I happy, well of course not. But I choose my life, no one forced me to come here.

[bradley]

I think there are more happy teachers in mainland China than in other parts of Asia: Taiwan, Japan and Thailand. I've taught in all those places. Maybe I'm just lucky. I've been here in Shenzhen for six years, have the same job, and happier than I have ever been. There are a lot of happy teachers here.