Job Discussion Forums

[mike w]

Don't use agents. I'm in my fourth apartment now - been in this one for 4 years. Never used an agent yet, and I certainly wouldn't sign any type of contract with an agent. i deal with the apartment owners only, and sign the contracts direct with them.

[Happy Everyday]

It's necessary to give that information when you want to sign the contract.
The agents/owners also want to know if you have income, so it's normal to ask if you have a job. No, you do not have to reveal much information. Once they have your name, you can easily be reported.


I've learned that the passport is not the only way for Chinese to get information or report information on a foreigner. They just need something that can identify you such as your place of residence or work, name, telephone number, etc.

We were negotiating the contract, and I decided to decline. High pressure sales lead to the contract discussions. After things got nasty, I don't feel influenced by pressure. It's your right to say no.

One more thing, I've had neighborhood security inspect my place, and they asked for personal information. They were not the security guards for the building, nor the neighborhood party or PSB. It was some sort of neighborhood official, and he had a list of all the residents. He knew I was a foreigner and insisted on entering to inspect. He took note of how many propane tanks I owned (1 for shower, 1 for kitchen, 1 spare) and thought I might blow the place up because I'm a foreigner. Yeesh, those were left there from the previous Chinese occupants. I've learned to try not to give personal information unless necessary. This person was not powerful but had some power. He wanted to know how much I pay for rent! It's none of his business. I pretended like I could not understand the question and called a Chinese friend. My friend told the dude, "If you have questions about the apartment, you can contact the agent or the owner." The dude was friendly yet did feel entitled to know. I am, after all, in *his* country. You gotta protect yourself and save face.

On that note, I've been advised to be friendly to everyone in China. In past instances, I could spot the person watching me. Other times, there was absolutely nobody around, and somehow people knew where I had been earlier. I *used* to complain if someone at a restaurant brought something totally wrong. I felt lied to. Over the years, if I complained to any Chinese, it sometimes got reported. Being friendly to everyone isn't easy. In some of the cheap eats, there are thieves in the alley. Some of them have nothing better to do than to watch you from afar, see where you live, observe your daily routes. Chinese people don't feel the need to be friendly to everyone nor do they have to give personal information to anyone.

[daCabbie]

Somebody is not 'Happy Everyday'.

[choudoufu]

[igorG]

I wouldn't let anyone inspect my rented home, except the owner.

As for the IDs required to rent a home in this country, it'd be interesting to know what we need to provide the owners with. I'd just write my name and the FEC number along and if i haven't had the FEC i'd bargained for the passport number. However, i'd never give a copy of my docs to any landlord in China.

[Happy Everyday]

choudoufu!

No, I'm not kidding. Sorry, but I don't know the name of his official title. He was a neighborhood level dude. He has some official ID card and a clipboard with the names of all who lived there. The building gatekeeper let him in. When in doubt, I call on my best Chinese friends. I gave the official dude my phone, and he talked with my good friend. My good friend told me to let him into my apartment because he was legit. He had a right to enter.

As stated, he had a job to do. But he pressed me for personal information. He was more than merely curious. He wanted to know. I do not want to make him angry. I do not want him giving me problems. I also do not want to give out personal info. Inspecting for fire hazards is all he should be doing. He couldn't understand english. I explained the situation to my friend, then gave the dude my phone again. My friend told the dude to contact the owner or the agent about any questions regarding the apartment (i.e. details that would be in the contract).


It was no big deal at all, just sharing info here.

[Happy Everyday]

@igor -- in regards to what the owners need,

I went with the owner to fill out paperwork at some local, government office. It was not PSB, Immigration, or a big party office. It was a neighborhood office of officials. The agent went with us.

The owner and I both had to provide copies of our ID, copy of contract, and fill out the paperwork required by that office. Not a big deal. After that, I could go register with local PSB for the resident permit. That was GZ.

Man, I LOVED THAT APARTMENT ! It was an old bulding but not falling apart. It was next to Fine Arts Park, near the film studio and the massive TV tower. Inside the park were modern facilities for fashion shows, and models arrived in limos. Many of the people living in the building were families, and most of them worked in the nearby film studio. It wasn't where the young, hip artists lived, and that would be ideal. But the location was GREAT! I was in my element. I was finishing Grad school at the time (film and television) at the Academy of Art, and my uni has the largest fashion school as well as many Chinese students in every department except acting (language barrier). I've only met one Chinese actress who auditions for English language films in Hollywood, and she was from Shanghai. There is a very strong presecne of Chinese language film and Chinese TV being produced in USA. Most of them work professionally in Chinese language, not English. Some of them choose English because they think it's better for their resume (if they go back to China).


Back on topic: The local neighborhood party must approve any expats living in homes not already designated for foreigners. One time in BJ, I wanted to share a place with a friend. His local committe did not approve of a foreigner moving in, so it never happened.

When I was a China noob, I got a teaching job from Dave's. The schools knew I had never been to China. They told me that I had to live on campus for my safety. Of course, I later learned that expats can rent apartments and buy property. UC Berkeley exchange students at BeiDa and TsingHua have put online the official documents needed to move into a place. I'll try finding the docs and post the link here. Some places in China require that you fill it out and give it to them. It's not a PSB. Sorry, I don't know the name of the office.

[choudoufu]

[Happy Everyday]

LOLOL


yeah, it sounds like a scam. i did not trust him. he was a part of some neighborhood committee. i'll email my friend and ask about it, then post their reply. i did not unlock my door for him until my chinese friend told me to. he was legit. he wasn't a shark disguised as a candygram. he wasn't impersonating an officer.

> "don't have to let in the police"

Dude, are you crazy? Ok, I do not know if you can legally refuse police. Sounds like a bad idea if you do.

peon? i'd take offense to that if i wasn't too busy getting what you need. what was it you ordered?

[choudoufu]

no offense intended. peon is just my word for the "little people"
....regular folks subject to/intimidated by authority.

yeah, if the police come, you can refuse. you can demand an
interpreter/translator. they can't come in without a very good
reason.

if you do refuse, do it politely.

[Happy Everyday]

I could not find the documents and instructions online, sorry.


@choudufu, that's the stinky stuff yeah?

I emailed my friend and am waiting for the response.
I didn't know you could refuse police.


OK, so if someone does have the right to inspect your home, you can send him away to talk with the owner? At some point they need to do their job.

Nobody else here has been inspected?

[Lobster]

Every so often, officials will conduct a door-to-door survey to ascertain who is living in an area. They will want to see your passport/RP and police reg form. It's not specifically for foreigners, but for all residents. The people who conduct this survey are uniformed poilice officers, not some guy with a clipboard. I recommend that you not allow any person unknown to you to enter your dwelling. All information they require may be obtained from the apartment owner. There were only three people I allowed in, the police as mentioned above, the landlord and the gas meter reader lady. Anyone else could be a present or future security risk.

RED

[Riviello]

Keep in mind, too, that if you rent your own apartment you are required to register with the local PSB every year.

Similar to what Lobster said, when I lived in Shanghai I heard a knock on the door and encountered a group of uniformed policemen asking to see my papers. They said I wasn't registered with the local PSB. I said I registered 15 months before. They told me that I had to register every year.

I thought I just had to register when I moved in. I knew that if I moved I'd have to register again, but didn't know I was required to register every year even if I stayed in the same place.

The cops were nice and told me to re-register as soon as I had time.

[askiptochina]

Yes, the deposit system in China is just as stupid as the deposit system in Korea.

In both countries (and Japan) I have been able to get around this by finding people to rent from who use common sense.

Most recently, I rented from one guy who wanted 750/week. When I got there, I mentioned I wanted to stay at least 2 weeks, but I was willing to pay the 2100 (his offer if I rented the whole month) if I needed the whole month.

He then tried to get 4200 out of me saying he wanted a deposit. Fair enough, but in his ad he had 750/week. So that means he would have 1500 at most for each week (owing me 750). Realizing the 2100 was more than the 1500, he soon forgot the 4200.

Sometimes you have to put Chinese in their place and don't let them grab your money. This is a big warning to anyone new to China. Chinese do not make promises like the Koreans. This isn't to say they are better or worse, but Chinese will discuss money matters and NOT give it back like they do in Japan and Korea. It's a different system, a whole different way to do business.

[Happy Everyday]

My friend wrote me back and explained that police usually have the right to enter your apartment. It's not like USA. In any case, I'm sure that there would be a legit reason for it, not someone wanting to look for fun.

The dude who conducted the fire inspection was wearing a uniform and had a job ID for it. He wasn't police. He wasn't wearing a fireman's hat. It seems I could've refused entry, and he would need to contact the owners. The owners would have to let him inspect, I think.

I'm aware that some stranger with a clip board has no meaning. I do not let strangers inside. Mind you the building was for Chinese people. Maybe the inspection was for everyone, it appeared so. The name on the clip board was the owner, not me. I've never heard of this happening in modern buildings and expat only compounds.

FWIW I had to cancel my rental agreement early when I moved to Hollywood for acting work (almost no paid fulltime performancce work is allowed for us in China). I got back the deposit and some of the pre-paid rent. No problem.