Job Discussion Forums

[Sashadroogie]

"I understand English, but I cannot speak it."

Do learners in your parts ever say this? How do you feel about the validity of this statement?

[nickpellatt]

I am learning Chinese, and for me, this statement has some validity.

I am able to listen to and understand Chinese in many limited contexts, but when pushed to respond to a question or engage in conversation, I need such a lot of thinking time to be able to respond. Sometimes, I cant really respond, although I do know the lexical items I need.

I am learning Chinese pretty much every day, but I am not using Chinese in speech very often, as a result my speaking skills are pretty bad. To some degree I could say 'I can understand (simple) Chinese, but I cant speak (much).

For students who have been learning English in environment where they dont communicate very much, the statement does have some validity IMO.

[BadBeagleBad]

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I am like that to a big extent, actually. I understand a good percentage of Russian (not graded, natural Russian), but can speak in stops and starts. Sad, actually
I have had many students for whom this is true with English.

[wangdaning]

I think you are running against a few language learning problems here.

Fear is often the first. Students forget that fluency and grammatical accuracy are two different things. They know what they want to say, but are afraid they will not say it right. They then just refuse to try.

Laziness is another issue. Students sometime refuse to try because they claim it is too hard. They know the question and how they should respond, but are too lazy to put in the effort of a response.

Inability. Some people simply cannot learn a new language. Not a big problem except for when they are trying to learn one.

The hard job for the teacher is to find out what is happening. If they are afraid, encourage them. If they are lazy, push them. If they are unable, console them. Be blunt in how you approach it.

As a language learner myself I feel little sympathy for all but the last. If a student is afraid or lazy then why are they learning? At some point you have to realize you are learning a language. Errors will be made, awkward situations will be had, but you will learn.

So the short answer is I will not take this from students. They must justify themselves.

[Mike_2007]

Yep, very common here too. Most of the kids in Romania are brought up on English-language TV (they use subtitles for films here, never overdubbing) and with the internet plus a lot of textbooks and manuals being in English, there are a lot of Romanians who can read and understand to a fairly good level without having spoken a word of English in their lives.

Similarly, my Romanian reading skills are probably between upper-int and advanced. I generally pick up a free newspaper on the metro and read that, I lurk on a few Romanian-language forums, and there are signs, notices, contracts and so on. I speak Romanian very rarely, and consequently only to lower-int level on a good day.

The fact of the matter is that skills develop independently. Students often ask 'What's my level?' but it's difficult to give them a straight answer. Most have developed certain skills whilst letting others lag behind. IT guys generally read well, but can't speak. Sales staff often speak confidently, but can hardly write 'my name is ...', university students studying English lit can write a decent essay, but often don't understand spoken English particularly well, and so on.

I mostly teach 1-2-1, so it's pretty easy for me to focus on the skills the student lacks or wants to enhance. How do you guys who teach large groups deal with the problem of have a group of students whose average level is similar, but who have varying strengths and weaknesses within the disciples?

[kazpat]

I have chosen to learn Kazakh but in my part of the country Russian is the dominate language. When it comes to Russian, I can understand it pretty well but have a hard time forming coherent sentences. However, I don't study Russian. I speak Kazakh at home with my English speaking wife because I have the drive to improve.

I think if you�re studying a language and cannot speak it at all after some time you might just be lazy. Your local teacher may also be lazy because you�re allowed to use your native language in class constantly.

[Sashadroogie]

Interesting replies. Thanks!. Keep them coming.

[PC Parrot]

What some teachers fail to remember is that their students get very little chance to practice speaking English. I've often seen teachers who put on superior airs because they feel that they've learned the local language more quickly than their students have learned English.

They forget they can completely immerse themselves in the language if they so desire, but their students can not. At best, their students get two or three chances to speak a week - and even then it's in front of a class of 20 people.

I'd much rather make a fool of myself in front of a shop keeper that I may never see again than in front of a classroom full of people who I will have to face twice a week for the next 15 weeks or more.

And yes, my French and Italian are now at the stage where, were I to communicate with people only via e-mail, I could do a pretty good job, but were I to try to conduct the same conversation face to face, I would struggle to understand their message and to deliver my own.

In Turkish I'd be fine in both scenarios because I lived there for 6 years and had as much opportunity to listen and speak as I had to read and write.

[naturegirl321]

Probabloy happens to us as well. I can understand a decent amount of Italian, Portugese, and romanian. Can't really speak them at all. I can read pretty well. French as well. Just because they're similar to Spanish.

[Scott R]

Two different types of memory are used. Reading and listening require recognition memory(easier) and speaking and writing require recall memory. In writing the student has more time to find the right words. Anxiety also plays a big part especially in recall memory. Some students are just better at recall memory, but it is definitely harder.

[sistercream]

I'm someone else who understands what your student means, Sashadroogie.
When I was first in Taiwan I could read Chinese, but had learnt to speak Cantonese, so could only point at menu items or write down what I wanted while grunting inarticulately.

In German, my aural and reading comprehension are pretty darned good (I can interpret quite complex conversations into English or Chinese, and translate most newspaper articles without using a dictionary), but the grammar is an absolute terror to me, and I open my mouth as little as possible. This is probably because my father and teachers would jump on every little mistake when I was studying the language and I became totally paranoid.

[gaijinalways]

No, some of the students here say, " I can't speak English" in English.

Of course, they probably mean they can speak a little English and perhaps understand some (since they understood the question asked).

It's the same if you ask Japanese students basic questions, they often can't give you a correct or meaningful answer. Yet they studied English for 6 years in school, albeit mostly for exams that test grammar and structural knowledge, not communicative ability.

Listening, writing, reading, and speaking skills are often of varying levels, even in native speakers.

So this statement they have given you is not unusual at all. I can totally relate, my listening skills in Chinese and Japanese are better than speaking in either language.

[spiral78]

In reference to speaking/listening, I think it's probably more accurate to say 'I can 'understand' more (to some degree) than I can 'say' in real time.

The distinction between recognition and recall/production is usually actual practice, and if a student hasn't had any occasion to say (or plan to say) a given word/phrase/structure, it may be harder to produce it than to recognise it when someone else produces it in speech.

However, obviously we are dealing with degrees here, and it's silly to imagine that a student can understand much without being able to produce anything - though he/she may be bound by anxiety as much (or more) than lack of knowledge.

On the topic of Japanese students, in my limited experience with them, their listening skills seem to be low in general, and lack of a response, or lack of a correct one, is often strongly linked to poor listening. In particular, if the topic is unexpected or new, they simply get that deer-in-the-heaadlights look and freeze up. Good thing they aren't usually in a life-or-death situation at such a juncture!

[spiral78]

In relation to the title of the thread - a few treats work wonders in terms of skills production in most dogs.
A proffered bite of cheese produces immediate speech from the schnauzer - perhaps worth a try with your students