Job Discussion Forums

wayne1523 · Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto, Canada

Hi, I'd like to know, given the English language teaching market today, if not the next few years, the difference in employment opportunities for one who is an education major and is a certified teacher back at home, and one who just has a general bachelor of arts degree with a TESOL/TEFL/CELTA and some teaching experience abroad. In a year or so, I will become the latter with more than a year worth of experience teaching public elementary in Korea. Briefly, what is the difference in opportunities given this difference in credentials in countries such as Thailand, Taiwan, Vietnam, China, and Japan. I am heavily looking at the first three of the aforementioned five countries as my next destination to teach.

I'm still a 23 year old male, and for now it may be swell that I have a BA majoring in History, a CELTA soon, and some teaching experience for the next 5 years. But for the person who nears the age of 30 or exceeds that, who starts to look to settle and look for a spouse and a family, would one live comfortably? Again, just a general perspective as I know the definition of "comfort" is very subjective. I'd like to know in terms of wages, hours, working conditions, etc. In a way I'm kind of regretting not being an Education major, and would contemplate possibly pursuing that according to some of the feedback.

Thank you! =)

BadBeagleBad

If you plan on staying in Education long term, you are far better off having a degree in Education, and certification from your home country. It opens up many more jobs, and they usually pay better than just ESL jobs. If you have both a degree in Education and a CELTA, or comparable certificate, you have many more jobs open to you as well. But, if it is something you are just going to do for a few years and not make a career out of it, then any degree and a TESOL certificate is the way to go.

wayne1523 · Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto, Canada

For now, it seems that I'd like to stay in ESL for quite a while.

fladude · Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 432

I can't imagine any advantage in getting a BA in education after already having a BA in history. There are advantages to becoming a certified teacher. But you can become a certified teacher without getting a BA in education. Since you already have a degree in history, I assume that you have at least 30 hours of credit in Social Studies type classes (history, poli-sc, anthropology, geography, etc...). So you can become certified as a Social Studies teacher fairly easily in pretty much any state. If you want to be certified in English you may have to take a bunch of English classes (30 hours of 300 or higher level college courses is the norm). Or you may just have to take a test (it depends on your state and where you want to work). Either way though you don't need a new degree.

Almost every state has alternative certification for non education majors. You need to look that up in your home state. You will probably have to take some classes and take some tests. But it won't be nearly as hard or expensive as going back and getting another BA. So look at your home state and figure out what you need and go from there. Once you get certified, then get 2 years of experience at a US public school and then you will be good to get back off the plantation and work at an International School (I know that working in the US public school system for 2 years does not sound fun.... but you gotta pay your dues). After you get 2 years of experience, and get settled down in the job you want to work at for a few years then you might want to get a Masters in Education, but I wouldn't bother with it until you get some experience teaching at a real school first. The education courses won't make nearly as much sense without practical experience. And you will get a lot more out of the classes if you are teaching while you take them.

The other idea would be to get a Master in TESOL and maybe a CELTA/DELTA. There are good paying jobs in ESL for people who are qualified.

Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

fladude · Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 432

It really depends on YOU. There are jobs out there, jobs in inner city schools, jobs in rural schools (not suburban but true rural where you have to teach 5 or 6 subjects every day), jobs in districts in failure, jobs on reservations.... they are out there. You have to look for a job where other people don't want to work. If you are committed to working in a suburban school district teaching AP kids then you aren't going to get a job. But if you are willing to move around and work ANYWHERE then you will get a job.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

MisterButtkins · Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Posts: 1221

In China I think it makes practically no difference what your degree is in. Maybe if you had a PhD in education and experience to back it up, but then you'd be able to get a hell of a lot more money elsewhere. I know guys with education degrees and 5-6 years of experience in the US who make the same amount I do. On the other hand, I know guys with degrees in photography who work here and make more than I do.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

If you plan right, yes, you can support a wife and kids. You get more experience. This is my 9th year of teaching and I'm 28. I have a BA and an MATEFL and another MA in the works. I'm pregnant and fully support myself and my husband.

Usually people take two routes: become licesned teaachers or get MAs. Those with licenses can teach in intl schools, those without usually can't. Pay and benefits can be similar. FOr example, I make twice as much as I did at a uni than I did at an international school. I also work half as much and have more than twice as much vacation. It's about finding what's right for you.

wayne1523 · Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto, Canada

Thanks all.

I'd like to make clear that my intention to be a licensed teacher back at home is to be able to use it abroad. I currently have a 3-year BA history degree so that means I'm probably going to have to do one more year to even meet the qualification requirements of getting a Canadian teacher's license/certified teacher. So that kind of bites.

Based on some of the replies here, may I then ask what would be the difference in opportunities in those respective Asian countries if I attained a teacher's license/certified teacher back in Canada and say did 2 years worth of teaching there at a public school VS. a Masters in TESOL? As well, how long does it take to do a Masters in TESOL? And what are the prerequisites of doing an MATESOL/MATEFL?

"Usually people take two routes: become licesned teaachers or get MAs. Those with licenses can teach in intl schools, those without usually can't. Pay and benefits can be similar. FOr example, I make twice as much as I did at a uni than I did at an international school. I also work half as much and have more than twice as much vacation. It's about finding what's right for you."

-What is the difference between working at an international school and working at a university? I'm confused. If the pay and benefits are similar, then how do you make twice as much at a uni while working half as much and getting twice as much vacation? As well, which one has a bigger market?

What are the qualification requirements for either international schools or university work? Do these differences apply to all countries?

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

You have to understand that employers are different. Intl school A may pay well and intl school pays not so well.

Intl schools TEND to pay well, very well, because of benefits, IF you're recruited from abroad.

I was recruited from abroad, but had residency in Peru, so they gave me the local salary. IT wasn't that good. Still double what I would have made at an institute, but nearly a third of what I make at a uni here in Asia.

My uni is a very, very good one. that's why it pays well. I also don't pay taxes (legally!!). I can work a couple extra hours a week, get bonuses in April, May, October, and February which really add up, and can work during breaks. So I'm making much more than I did at the intl school. Even though the intl school wasn't the best, I still make a bit more than other friends I have at intl schools here in Korea just because of all the bonuese and the fact that I don't pay taxes, legally.

You have to choose what you want to do. Do you like teaching kids or adults?

With intl schools, you often work 180 days, plus institute days. And are at school from 8 to 4. At my uni, I work 30 weeks for about 20 hours and have two weeks of exam grading, but don't have to be at school for that, but still go for a couple hours to show my face. So I'm only there for about 150.

Key is to find a good job. My uni is good. I could never make what I make here in Korea as I do in Peru. So find a good country as well. Pay and benefits DO tend to be the same, but, in general, at a uni you will work less hours and have more vacation.

As for the bigger market, it totally depends. For example, to work at a uni in Japan, you'd better have a super impressive CV and connectison. It might be easier to get an intl school job there. But the Middle east, you could get a uni job there pretty easily.

Basic reqs
Intl schools: teaching license and 2 yaers exp preferred.
Uni: MA and 2 years exp preferred.

remember these are BASIC reqs. Places may require more, like publications, or expeirence with X learners. It really depends. Different countries require different things. there are SO many differences out there.

I think you should choose an age you want to teach and start looking at the job boards.

best of luck!

wayne1523 · Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto, Canada

I don't have any experience teaching adults yet so I can't say that I'd prefer one over the other. However, I've been teaching at the elementary level and I have been enjoying my kids. I don't see why it would be a bad thing to teach kids in the long run. So let me get this right. In general, at an international school you teach kids but you're there for longer hours and it offers great pay and benefits, and in universities you teach adults and it too offers great pay and you usually work there for shorter hours with more vacation time?

In point form, how do we officially define/distinguish an international school vs. a university?

"Basic reqs
Intl schools: teaching license and 2 yaers exp preferred.
Uni: MA and 2 years exp preferred."

- 2 years experience where?

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

So then it looks like it woudl be beneficial for you to get a teaching license and teach at intl schools.

Two years experience for intl schools means two years experience teaching that level. For unis, they prefer two years experience at a uni or just two years teaching adults.

It really, really depends on where you are Smile

Seioulsy. I taught at unis and intl school in peru. And a uni in Korea. the uni in Korea pays MUCH better than any of my jobs did in Peru. But cost of living also comes into play. You have to remember that.

Look, for argument's sake, let's say EVERYTHINGis the same. Bottom line: do you want to teach kids or adults? there are horrible, ok, good, fantastic, and wonderful jobs for ALL levels out there.

Just go with what you think will work for you!

Intl schools are K to 12. Unis are above that.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

wayne1523 · Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto, Canada

Thanks again, all.

-May I ask what is the pre-requisite for getting an MATESOL? What are preceding steps/ranks before a MATESOL?

(I continued this thread into another thread since it started to go off topic). But if anyone can answer the above question it'd be really nice.

"For unis, they prefer two years experience at a uni or just two years teaching adults. "
- How does that work? If a uni needs you to have 2 years uni experience, then how do you get into that first uni? Are we talking about different kinds of uni's?