Job Discussion Forums

[Oriented]

OK, I know you didn't mean the rice paddy literally, but out there in Sapa, they are looking for volunteer English teachers

http://www.seriousteachers.com/Job_details.asp?idemployer=9070&idjob=195588&pag=7

[deessell2]

Why did you choose Vietnam as a destination? It is a harsh place to live, especially for a woman. I would pick somewhere else, if I was you.

[Oh My God]

[Kornan DeKobb]

I also want to lend credence to Mark in Saigon's comments.

I have been to 30 countries, but HCMC and especially Hanoi have to be two of the most stressful cities to live in. Absolutely EVERY aspect of life here is difficult, air, food, water, exercise, transportation, money, ripoffs, etc. I want to get out, but have not yet for two reasons:
1. I don't have anything better lined up elsewhere yet; and
2. The one bright spot, I have made some really nice friends here.

So know what you are getting into. If you are a walker or jogger, forget it.

Now, knowing all that, if you still want to come, I think you will find something. Enough schools need teachers. At the very least, you should be able to get some private gigs, but generally you don't just arrive and get them. You must put in time and get to know people who will then give you work or find it for you.

[The Mad Hatter]

You are the kind of teacher applicant that makes life hard for established teachers here. You will come here, and you will be upbeat and approach your job with a positive attitude every day. So locals will hire you quickly and your students will pick up on your attitude and be pleased and comfortable.
you will get high reviews and make everyone else look bad in comparison.
You will be given just the same respect if not more so from the schools since they have no sense of long term commitment to teachers and will greatly appreciate your obvious zeal with you you go about you duties.
You may likely be considered for a management position or even a 'principal" or "DOS" position given your credentials and age, which will lend an air of professionalism, authenticity, and gravitas.
So the answer is yes, you should come and try to teach here. If sure beats volunteering back home. I am just a little concerned about the "doing celta in saigon " part. doing celta at some notorious schools is no fun at all.

[Jbhughes]

So can a 66 year old lady be hired here then?

Can TravelnLass get a work permit should she want to go down that route? Retirement age in VN is 55 for a woman right? - surely this would be reflected in work permit regulations?

If a wp isn't available doesn't this mean that she will required to be flying to BKK every 3 months unless she's lucky enough to find someone who she can pay for the appropriate service?

TravelnLass - I advise checking if you qualify for a work permit or not and if not, becoming fully aware of the situation for those who are embroiled in the visa fiasco and deciding whether or not you want to be part of that (no offence to anyone dealing with visas without wps - having a wp is hardly a golden ticket either tbh).


One other point potentially not made is that age does command respect here, despite westernisation and eroding of traditional values - this does seem to hold. One other foreign teacher at my school (aged 55) readily admits that they have a very poor grasp of grammar and still gains respect from sts and good reviews from higher level classes who want the teacher to teach them. No idea about your knowledge of grammar or its teaching or any aspect of your ability as a teacher TravelnLass (neither is it my place to question either), I'm just making the point that age stills commands respect.

[scorch]

I want to come to Vietnam to look for work in a year or two, but I find many of the comments about age to be misleading. I just can't believe that it can make such a big difference. I did a lot of research on various esl forums before I decided to make the move to Asia to teach English. I came to China at age 52, and got a job in less than 2 weeks. I became friends with a lady from England who was teaching in Guangzhou at age 66 (and she looked it, but her students loved her.) I am now 59 and teaching in Hong Kong. I also know a few other teachers in China who are well over 60. I feel the one mistake I made was to ask for advice on these forums. All they did was discourage me. Everyone has opinions, but nothing is written in stone. I plan on going to Vietnam or Cambodia in a year or two, and I fully expect to find a job. If I don't, my old employer in China told me I can come back and teach at his school anytime. He even came to visit me in Hong Kong, and wants me to come to his place in China this summer. I believe if you do a good job, stay happy, don't complain and develop friendships, you will be fine. I think relationships are much more important than "qualifications," regardless of the moral or ethical implications this may entail. I also believe it is much easier for older people to adapt to life in Asia. I believe that Chinese employers are good people and will treat you right. I have never been mistreated. I am hoping the same will be true when I go to Vietnam or Cambodia. I am confident that if I do a good job, age will not matter. These schools want to make money, and they need good employees to do it. I would advise anyone over 60 who wants to come to Asia to find a job to go for it. Your big advantage is that you have enough life experience that you don't need anyone to hold your hand. I don't believe employees want young teachers who they can bully and take advantage of. They want reliable teachers that they can count on and relieve them of additional responsibility and worry. And, contrary to what I've been reading on other posts, I think if you make a good impression during your interview, your age will be seen as an asset. A sharp, well dressed, clean cut, distinguished looking person looks like a teacher, and it sells.

[LettersAthruZ]

TravlinLass.....I'll PM you with my opinion of Da Lat......apparently, expressing opinions about cities in Viet Nam upsets some individuals.

[Oriented]

Scorch said: "I came to China at age 52, and got a job in less than 2 weeks. I became friends with a lady from England who was teaching in Guangzhou at age 66 (and she looked it, but her students loved her.) I am now 59 and teaching in Hong Kong. I also know a few other teachers in China who are well over 60."

No one believes that age can make such a big difference, until suddenly one day, it does.

There's a lot of difference between 52 and 60 (or 66). I'd never tell anyone who's 52 they're too old to get a job in China, far from it! But 60 is a red line for the great majority of employers here. At 52, you're a seasoned employee; at 60, you should retire. That's how most people think.

That does not mean that nobody at or above that age, can ever get a job anywhere; it does greatly limit their opportunities. As I and others on this board have observed, it might mean only "less desirable" jobs in terms of location and pay are open to the 60-plus candidate. Many postings for more desirable locations such as Shanghai, Guangzhou and increasingly Beijing limit hiring once people get into their 50s.

It's also not well known to most people coming to China for the first time, that HR departments here often have far greater influence on who gets hired than the person who is apparently the hiring manager. They might be 'rubber stamps' in many Western companies; in China, they can and do veto the preferences of many line managers, and many managers are supervising people they might not have preferred to hire. So even if a director of studies wants to hire you, they might well be over-ruled by the HR department.

The lady you cite in Guangzhou and those others who are over 60 -- yes, absolutely, such people exist all over China. But they almost certainly got hired before the age of 60.

Scorch, you'll probably find that as you move through your 60s, it will become increasingly difficult to get new jobs. Most of us think that as long as we do a good job and are willing to work for the prevailing wage, we'll be OK, competitive with anyone. We believe that in our 30s, 40s and even 50s. And it's largely true for most people during those decades of their lives. But one day, we find it's not true -- and that's usually about the time we hit 60.

The stories posted by people on this board and other teacher sites such as those I linked to earlier and AJARN in Thailand, etc. testify amply to the barriers faced by older teachers. Those barriers are there, even for many people with great skills, experience, references and degrees.

[mark_in_saigon]

[snollygoster]

I'm an oldie- plenty of years in Vietnam, Now out (escaped). Vietnam is definately NOT the place to live a quiet life-There are challenges and hassels every day. The only predictable thing is that there will be some sort of crap every day, only its variety changes. From being the target of maniac motor bike cowboys trying to frighten you as you cross on a pedestrian crossing as they run the red light, to the fermenting baby diapers in the lakes and canals, to the moron singing karaoke out of tune with the volume turned up to 12 out of 10, to hassels from the police-mosquitos, incessant noise-being seen as a walking ATM, and despised in spite of it, leers as drunks slobber dog meat fat out of the corner of their mouthes, to the vacant stares of the highly drugged heroine addicts from whom the police make bundles of money, to the sight of grown men peeing in the gutter while their friends giggle like little school girls as they sit about in their baby sized plastic chairs on the sidewalk guzzling beer.
All too much for me, and even after such a long time in Vietnam, when I see a movie about Vietnam (which is banned in Vietnam because it shows some of these things), am I "home sick" for Vietnam? Not a chance.
So if you like being treated as a curiosity, like being ripped off, like being despised, love pollution, can accept rampant corruption, then you will like Vietnam. Perhaps the tourism return rate of 5% says it all.

[mark_in_saigon]

[haller_79]

[mark_in_saigon]

[toiyeuthitmeo]

My contribution is based on on a teacher who has been gone for a few years now, and it must be noted that a teacher like her has not been hired since (whether due to policy or lack of interest is knowledge only the hallowed higher-ups have).

There was a brilliant and popular teacher at my school when I arrived, who I reckon was about your age. She was a delight to have in the teacher room and her students loved her to pieces. Energetic, positive, authoritative, relaxed, the whole package if you will.

She did her year here and traveled quite a bit as opportunity arose, and has since moved on to the Middle East, where she has been quite well compensated and satisfied as an educator.

I think Vietnam remains an option for you, but all of the points brought up previously are well worth contemplating. To echo myriad comments posted in this forum, you should certainly come here in the mindset of an experiment, with the ability to pick and choose your options, depart at will, and do it all with the smile that I assume you possess, gathered from your writings.

A practical concern is that if you should have any medical needs, emergency or anticipated, this place goes in the "cons" column on your list of options.

Cheers, good luck, and let me know if I can be of assistance in any way.