Job Discussion Forums

[adriahnfrank]

Hi everyone,
i live in perth, australia and i'm looking at teaching english overseas. i don't have a degree or any experience yet and was wondering if i could get some advice on how to get started.

i'm thinking china would be the best place to get started (or can anyone recommend anywhere else that i could get stated - earning at least enough to cover living expenses?)

from the reading i've been doing i'm under the impression that a tefl course won't count for anything unless it's at least 120 hours and has at least 6 hours practical teaching?

unfortunately in perth for a course that complies with the above requirements i'm looking at spending a minimum $AUD 2500 +, which is not feasible for me to spend at this stage.

i've emailed a few schools in china, and some seem to be interested in me even though i don't have a degree or any experience. this could work, except i don't like the idea of being launched into a job without any idea how to teach.

or one option i found appealing is http://teflinternships.com/
this involves doing 80 hours of tefl coursework online before i go, then another 60 hours in china and do 25 teaching hours a week for 3 months at 4000RMB per month ( and a 2000RMB bonus at the end of the 3 months). i would leave after 3 months with a 140hr tefl certification and 200 - 300 hrs teaching experience.

if i was to teach 25 hours a week normally, at entry level, i was under the impression i would earn about 6000RMB a month - is this correct? so i forgo around 2000RMB per month and theres the initial cost of $US888

do you guys reckon this internship is worth going for?
or are there factors i haven't considered?

or should i just try and get a job outright?

any advice would be greatly appreciated
cheers,

adriahn

[Glenski]

How old are you? You might be able to latch onto a working holiday visa, but work in Japan is pretty tight.

[nickpellatt]

Hi Adrian

The commendable thing is you recognise the need for some kind of training and have a desire to learn something before stepping into the classroom. Training is important because the ability to speak English isnt anywhere near enough, you need to at least have an idea about how to teach it too!

The bad news is that there isnt likely to be an easy route for you to follow, so if you are young enough for a Japanese working visa as Glenski suggests, it might be a route worth taking!

Regarding China, the law suggests that to qualify for a legal working visa, you do need a degree and two years work experience. Laws in China are rarely absolute though, and are often interpreted locally with strings being pulled to employ you. That doesnt mean you will have a legal working visa though, and many people in China are working illegally. Most will never have a problem, but some will. You need to be aware of that, and if an employer breaks the terms of the contract, doesnt pay you etc etc, you wont have much in the way of legal recourse to do anything about it. The fact you dont have a degree, a TEFL cert or any experience means you are more likely to encounter the less scrupulous employer too.

The kind of program you mention doesnt represent good value for money at all. The online learning component is fairly worthless IMO, and even after you have completed the internship, you are still back to square one without a degree, and so will have a problem getting legal status. The minimal experience the program offers wont trump a degree in terms of legal status. Im sure you will have an adventure on that program, but its a bit of a throwaway adventure that costs a lot of money in terms of investment and money lost in low wages, that may not be transferrable in the future.

If you are just looking for a short adventure, then go for it. But if you are looking for something that may lead to a longer term EFL future, that route isnt it IMO. I can see you are looking to do it on the cheap, and quickly, but that can cost more in the long term because realistically, you are going to need to get that degree at sometime, and also add a recognised TEFL qualification like a CELTA too. Not doing so, is going to really limit your chances TBH.

[naturegirl321]

If you can't afford one at this point, there are plenty of other ways to learn, starting with your library, volunteer teaching, or observing and talking to teachers.

China is a good place to start and you can save and then do a TEFL course after you complete your contract.

[Isla Guapa]

[Glenski]

[naturegirl321]

[wiganer]

Adrihan,

Go back to school, get a degree - if you want to teach English then a linguistics degree will stand you in good stead.

I was like you once, I wanted to teach English abroad but I had no degree, so I picked out a degree that would be of use to me and I was very lucky because most teachers fall into this game like a blind man falls into a manhole, they graduate with their next to useless degrees and think ' what the hell can I do now?' And they end up somewhere like South Korea out of their depth more often than not because they fell into it - that is not to say a lot of them don't make good teachers eventually because a lot do, but wouldn't it be better to get as good as grasp on this subject before setting out to teach English as a second language instead of just falling into it with no idea what you are doing? ( and no, CELTA isn't interchangeable with any degree in my opinion!)

I know three years is a long time and all the rest of it but it will stand you in good stead and at least you know what you want to do with the degree
which puts you above a lot of undergraduates going to university - so pick wisely and the world will open up to you.

[spiral78]

[spiral78]

And getting a bit further into this debate:

[Sashadroogie]

Ah, once more! Let's sing the hymn. We all on the same sheet?

[Isla Guapa]

[naturegirl321]

[artemisia]

The lack of a degree is a huge issue in terms of getting legal work in many regions. As an Australian, unless you have a second passport, you�re going to need work visas just about everywhere. You might get a one year working holiday visa in some countries if you�re under a certain age but it won�t deal with the issue of what comes next.

I�d go for a degree in whatever you�re interested in. If that�s really teaching - so be it. If you still wish to pursue TEFL abroad after that then, at very least, a TEFL cert would be in your best interests unless the equivalent is included in an undergraduate degree. There might be various options on how you go about getting a certificate but it�s likely having one will open more doors for you in the future. It�s true that many take on initial teaching jobs without having that, but in terms of developing a reputation as a teacher, being qualified - however basic - will stand you in good stead for future jobs. Trying to find your feet in a classroom situation is not all that easy � bluffing and confidence will only get you so far.

Maybe because I�m teaching ESL and not EFL (?), I find students these days are becoming increasingly demanding and have a pretty good idea of who�s good and who isn�t. They expect to see results and be given clear guidelines on how to improve. They�re not slow to complain about teachers who can�t do the basics. I�ve seen people who presumably have had training lose their jobs. A basic cert is not enough; you have to keep on improving and bettering your knowledge. Having one is a good start, though.

[nickpellatt]

I think we are talking to ourselves again people....the OP hasnt been back yet.

I was one of those who started off without any certification or degree. In fairness, I started off on the type of program the OP mentions here too, but the main difference is I did it as an adventure, and at the time had no intention of staying in EFL. I was also very very lucky because my volunteer program was in a fairly isolated part of China, and as a result I was able to find a fairly solid employer to give me a chance without any qualifications. The location I was in was not desirable for most FTs, and the employer was quite desperate. I know I was lucky.

I wasted time and money on an online qualification, and whilst I enjoyed my first job in China, I do feel it was a harder learning curve than it needed to be, and it was a wasted opportunity to some degree. If I had invested in genuine training before I went, I would have done a better job and had a better time. I dont really think I followed the right route.

Another reason I am lucky is that my UK hometown has a fairly healthy language school summer program with tens of thousands of students between April and October. Ive always had EFL work when Im at home too, and this isnt something everyone has access to.

The one thing I did, that I would recommend anyone unqualified should do, is get that degree situation sorted. I started a distance learning degree when I started that first EFL job. I couldnt always stay teaching abroad when studying, so that EFL work in my hometown came in handy. Half way through the degree I was able to cram a Trinity cert in too with one of the local language colleges. Im proof that it can be done I guess .... but I also know I have been very very lucky and so many things have fallen nicely in place too. I dont think everyone can follow my path and enjoy such luck TBH

The OP says its not feasible to invest in a genuine course at this time, but is also suggesting it is feasible to invest $800+ US in a different program that offers a short cut. He will also need to invest perhaps another $800 in flights, and have an additional $800+ in pocket money to get him going in China. If he just wants a short term adventure thats all well and good. I get the impression he is looking for more though, and whilst the volunteer route worked for me, I dont think I would recommend it for everyone as its simply not realistic for most people.