Job Discussion Forums

[elameire]

Hi all,

First off, this resource is tremendous. It�s unbelievable how much I�ve learned over the past several days just from reading.

I�m in my mid-30s, American, have 10 years experience in higher education and test prep, and I just visited Madrid with my girlfriend. We were blown away, and realized that living there would be the perfect way to break away from the Silicon Valley rat race for a year. We�re planning on moving within the coming six months.

From what I�ve researched I�ve picked up some pieces of info, but I�m asking you all to vet these for me and let me know if I�m right, wrong, or otherwise.

Please let me know if I�ve neglected something or if I have the wrong idea about anything. Perhaps this can both provide some insight for me, as well as provide a template for other Americans in similar situations.

What Seems to be the Case:

� EU residents have an easier time than US residents in terms of finding a job.

� One should prepare to move to Spain to teach with at least 3 months savings.

� Schools are more likely to hire someone with a TEFL certificate, preferably conferred by CELTA or the TrinityCertTESOL.

� The best time to take TEFL courses is either late summer or winter, in order to be in the best position for the hiring season.

� One can work in Spain illegally, but you run a bit of a risk by doing so (potential deportation) and you could make your life painful even without deportation (lack of job security, possibly getting pushed around by shady bosses).

Now, I have a few questions that I�m hoping someone can assist me with:

1. Whenever I�ve moved to a new city in the U.S., I�ve begun by just putting out my own shingle and making some money through independent, one-on-one tutoring. Is this even a remote possibility in Madrid? I speak passable Spanish, by the way.

2. Does the student visa process in Spain allow for visas to be conferred while taking coursework in a language school? I ask because some TEFL schools offer a year�s worth of classes, presumably for the purpose of allowing individuals to stay in the country legally. Language schools in the U.S. do similar things.

3. Do I have the calendar correct insofar as it pertains to the hiring season? I�d love it if the TEFL classes were offered throughout the year, but it doesn�t seem that there�s much offered in the early spring. Clearly, this makes sense in the context of the school year.

Thanks so much for reading through this tome. Please excuse my newbie questions, and let me know what insight you have!

-Eddie

[spiral78]

From your post, I'm not sure how you expect to get a visa. The student visa route, so far as I know, is valid only through university study. I have never heard of a private language school that arranges visas for non-EU students.
You basically have to plan to enter legitimate, full-time university study, and then you can be qualified for part-time work visas.

The private language schools, where you might find work, cannot get you a visa. The national laws make the bar so high (the school must prove that you have skills no EU member citizen can offer) that a private school simply can't/won't go through the expensive and difficult process.

One other issue you didn't mention - perhaps you are aware of it, but in case not - is the Schengen zone 90 days in/90 days out rule (you can google this for a list of countries and the official description). In a nutshell, it means that if you don't find someone to give you a visa within 90 days in Spain, you will have to leave the entire Schengen zone (essentially all of Western/Central Europe) for at least the next 90 days.
In the past, working illegally was much safer and easier, because any border run restarted your 90 day tourist visa, but this is no longer the case.

While some will imply that getting caught is unlikely, I can say for certain that airport border officials do indeed check stamps (maybe not 100%, but definitely often enough to be a serious risk). Further, passport checks are sometimes performed on international trains and even busses - this is getting more common as the immigrant issue heats up in the EU.

Essentially, I will say what no-one likes to hear (again) - it's extremely unlikely that you and your girlfriend will find a school that will give you a visa to live/teach in Spain for a year. Also, I'll state again, for the record, that I don't necessarily agree that this should be the case - it simply is the current situation.

So long as people like yourself are aware that your quest is very unlikely to be successful - it's clearly your perogative to give it a try anyway, of course! Maybe you will find some rare loophole that is not common knowledge. But if you are going to take the chance, and incur the expense in time and money, it's useful to have a realistic picture of the challenges you face.

[elameire]

This is very good information; thanks much! My only options, it appears, are to either enroll in full-time university study or to earn a work visa.

However, this is something that I noticed: It seems like, by default, one has to begin working in Spain illegally: you need to be in country to take the TEFL courses; you need to be in country to interview for jobs; and the work visa process takes some time. Is this an accurate assessment? There doesn�t seem to be a �fully legal� way of entering the country and working immediately. Not really a problem, but just curious.

Again, spiral78, thanks for your reply. Let me know any other thoughts you have!

[spiral78]

Other than the university study route, here are the only ways I know of:

Qualify for teaching at an international school (usually in a core subject such as math or science) and have at least two years of experience in your home country. Find an opening (they're fairly rare - usually through a job fair) and apply. If you are accepted, the international school (not a language school - these are schools that teach core subjects in English to local and expat children) will arrange for everything in advance, usually.

Have a skill that a university can prove no EU citizen can match. The university will then submit an application for an exceptional visa to the national immigration service, and again, everything will be arranged in advance.

Outside of universities and international schools, so far as English teaching goes, you have basically only the private language school route to take. They don't (can't afford to and don't have to - there are LOTS AND LOTS of UK teachers around!!) arrange for work visas for non-EU citizen teachers.

There are some few internships around as well (there is more info on other threads here about this). There are also working holiday visas, but I don't know of any available for US citizens.

On the timing issue, for example, if you were targeting a country where US citizens can get legal work permits, such as the Czech Republic or Poland, the time frame is usually like this:

Take a CELTA or equivalent course in August. Apply at the end August - early September for a job. Hopefully - find a school that wants you enough to go through the paperwork hassles. School files paperwork on your behalf within, say 45 days of your entry into the Schengen zone. Paperwork may take a bit longer to come through, but in the case that you have any legal encounters in advance, USUALLY a blind eye will be turned to any short overstay of the 90 days as your paperwork is in the process.

[AGoodStory]

Here is a thread on working in Spain on a student visa:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=70419&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

And here is information about the requirements for a student visa:

http://www.consulate-spain-chicago.com/student.htm
http://www.spain-visas.com/Spain-Student-Visas-pag2.htm

Apparently programs other than university study qualify; however, "full-time" study is stipulated, and you do have to show proof of financial means to live and study in Spain for the length of the visa. (Not clear what that consists of.)

[elameire]

Thanks for the reply, AGS.

What I'm guessing it means is what it means in the U.S.: Students need to provide an affidavit of financial support in order to prove that they can pay full-freight to go to the school. This assures the feds that the kid won't have to work illegally while in country.

Ugh. I work in college admissions right now, and I know how strict the U.S. is on this policy. I would imagine Spain is similarly strict.

[AGoodStory]

Elameire, have you come across the Ministry of Education program for North American Language and Culture Assistants? (It looks like it's closed for 2011-12, unfortunately.) While 35 is the usual upper age limit, the guidelines state that it is possible to extend it.

http://www.mec.es/sgci/usa/en/programs/us_assistants/default.shtml

http://www.educacion.gob.es/exterior/usa/en/File/aux_us/aux_nort_brochure.pdf

http://www.educacion.gob.es/exterior/usa/en/File/aux_us/manual_20110201.pdf

[naturegirl321]

[elameire]

Hey AGS and NatureGirl,

Yes, I just found this a few days ago; I wish I had known about it in January. Regardless, it's good to know that the Spanish government supports such a project.

[elameire]

Hi folks,

Just to update you all, one can apparently go through language schools in order to earn a student visa. One organization, TtMadrid (www.ttmadrid.com/), offers visa acquisition services, teacher training, and so forth.

Has anyone heard about such "full service" language schools and their reputations?

Thanks again!

[naturegirl321]

[naturegirl321]

I remembered the name! Instituto Cervantes should be able to get you with a student visa. They're very well known in Spain for running DELE prep. I know that one was in the Uni de Salamanca, here's some more http://www.cervantes.es/default.htm

Another one to try would be Don Quijote Institutes, they are all over Spain, http://www.donquijote.org/english/courses.asp

Email these places and ask. They're the most well known ones, so I'm assuming that they could either get you a student visa or be up front with you if they can't.

[spiral78]

Bumping thread for newbie.

[elameire]

Hi all,

Thanks much for your input - especially NatureGirl and Spiral.

To provide some input for others in the same situation, I wanted to let you know what I've found:

Several language and culture schools offer package programs providing the following:

1. TEFL training.
2. Job placement.
3. Cultural enrichment classes.
4. Visa acquisition help.

How does this all work? Students enroll in the "cultural enrichment" classes, which serve to qualify the program as a sort of post-secondary education. The school, then, can issue the appropriate documents to qualify for a student visa.

As I've been in college admissions for over a decade, I can't believe I didn't immediately look for such programs. We're thick with them here in the Silicon Valley, as so many students from China and India partake in them. I always found these programs shady, but it appears that I'm in the same situation now.

So, in a nutshell, a non-EU citizen can earn a student visa - thus permitting the student to legally work at a limited capacity - as long as s/he is enrolled in an appropriate program of study. Clearly, this program does not need to be a degree-granting program.

Let me know your feedback on all of this, or if I've left anything vague. Again, thanks for all of your input.

-Eddie

[spiral78]