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think_balance
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: Korea to Japan Transition |
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How difficult is it to transition from a job at a Korean university to a job at a Japanese university? Do Japanese employers generally count years of service at a Korean university as experience? I have heard that some only count work in Japanese schools.
Thank you. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:30 am Post subject: |
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There is more to it than just showing experience at another university. Other countries have different standards.
Tell us about your qualifications first.
[list=]Publications?
Japanese language ability (speaking, reading, writing)
Types of classes taught (or desired)
Degree and major[/list] |
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think_balance
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
There is more to it than just showing experience at another university. Other countries have different standards.
Tell us about your qualifications first.
[list=]Publications?
Japanese language ability (speaking, reading, writing)
Types of classes taught (or desired)
Degree and major[/list] |
I've posted this elsewhere (not that I expect everyone to have seen it):
I just received my MA TESOL.
I've taught English in France for a year.
I'm stuck in the US for another three years for medical reasons.
What I'm considering is landing a uni job in Korea for a few years, then transition to a uni job in Japan.
Since I have a great job here in the US, I'll likely have to volunteer teach or attempt to find junior college job during the evenings / weekends until I can make it to Korea.
My 'concern' is that I hear stories that there's some animosity between Japan and Korea thus my experience in Korea may not count for anything.
As for language skills: sorting that out. I may study both Korean and Japanese in the evening for the three years I have here. |
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JaneMansfield
Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 16
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| think_balance wrote: |
As for language skills: sorting that out. I may study both Korean and Japanese in the evening for the three years I have here. |
ummm i don't have advice for your transition but this is ambitious!! language professionals like the CIA language training institution (look it up!) consider these languages to be the 2 most difficult for native english speakers. learning them both isn't impossible, but learning one and then learning the other after you've gained knowledge in one (especially since they're very similar grammatically) might make more sense. Most people who attempt to learn 2 asian languages even at university both starting from scratch pretty much give up on one and focus on the other... |
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think_balance
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| JaneMansfield wrote: |
| but learning one and then learning the other after you've gained knowledge in one (especially since they're very similar grammatically) might make more sense. |
That's actually what I intend to do - 2 years of Japanese and one year of Korean - and only because I can't find a Junior College that offers two years of Korean. |
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rich45
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| think_balance wrote: |
My 'concern' is that I hear stories that there's some animosity between Japan and Korea thus my experience in Korea may not count for anything.
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Mostly animosity on the Korean side.
I don't know about Universities, but certainly in terms of eikaiwa/ALT positions, then in my opinion, employers look on any kind of experience as a major positive.
Again in my opinion (and experiences, not to mention hearing other people's stories via PM), then I believe it is something of a myth that Japanese employers only take Japanese experience into consideration. |
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BBQchips
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 19
Location: Okayama, Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Even though the courses you are interested only offer one year of Korean since you are planning to go to Korea first wouldn't it be best to learn Korean first? Also, why exactly do you want to go to Korea first? I think since Japan is your ultimate goal it might be best to just work towards that instead of building a path towards Korea. |
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think_balance
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| BBQchips wrote: |
| Even though the courses you are interested only offer one year of Korean since you are planning to go to Korea first wouldn't it be best to learn Korean first? Also, why exactly do you want to go to Korea first? I think since Japan is your ultimate goal it might be best to just work towards that instead of building a path towards Korea. |
Both good questions - and with a few years to mull this all over, I can 'afford' to change my mind about my approach if needed.
Why Japanese then Korean? I'd prefer to have Korean be more recent when I move there. If I study Korean and then Japanese, then move to Korea, I think that the more recent studies of Japanese would interfere with my (at that point) fading Korean skills.
Why Korea then Japan instead of just heading to Japan?
It seems that university jobs in Korea are easier to come by than they are in Japan - and that Japanese positions require more experience.
Anecdotally - I already had an offer from a uni in Korea (during a TESOL conference) and I see Korean positions all the time here on Dave's. I don't see that level of availability for Japanese positions - but then it is very early in my search. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| think_balance wrote: |
| That's actually what I intend to do - 2 years of Japanese and one year of Korean - and only because I can't find a Junior College that offers two years of Korean. |
You are looking at least JLPT 2 in order to deal with all the Japanese paperwork, meetings, etc that you will likely be dealing with in uni positions over here... there is no way you are going to have the time to study enough in 2 years if you are working and volunteer teaching. I doubt that most would manage that if they were studying Japanese full time for 2 years solid.
And you didn't answer Glenski's question about publications (which are often required to get uni work here).
Whether Korea experience will be counted as teaching experience is hit or miss. All employers will see it as a positive in that it demonstrates that you are able to adapt to living in a foreign country and are less likely to get homesick after a month and bail on them. But the Japanese don't tend to get out of their country much and often believe that everything in Japan is entirely unique meaning that any teaching experience you have might not prove anything because it was gained outside of Japan where things are not the same. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:08 am Post subject: |
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It's not just experience, as you've been told twice so far.
Moreover, some countries look at the type of uni you come from to judge whether you'd be an equivalent fit with theirs. Even within Japan, we've had some people apply at my uni from others in Japan, but their rank there is not equivalent, so they were given lesser consideration (and usually not hired).
Waiting to hear more about your perception of achieving language fluency and publications... |
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think_balance
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Waiting to hear more about your perception of achieving language fluency and publications... |
I haven't any fluency in Japanese yet. I'll be taking Japanese classes at my local JC in the Fall. They offer two years worth of classes. Not sure what to do once those two years of classes are up - but I'll worry about that when that time comes.
No publications. Would like to speak at a CA TESOL (Ca= California, not Canada) next year. Is giving lectures like this beneficial? Or is it a wash?
If I do give a lecture, then I'd likely try to publish an article on the same topic. At this exact moment (having *just* graduated last Friday) I'm a bit burnt out to think about writing again, but in June I plan on starting some research and reaching out to my (now former) adviser for some mentoring in getting published.
Lastly, while it isn't *just* experience, I know it helps. And I am wondering how volunteer ESL works looks on a resume. Can you offer any insight on this?
Thank you. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| think_balance wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| Waiting to hear more about your perception of achieving language fluency and publications... |
I haven't any fluency in Japanese yet. I'll be taking Japanese classes at my local JC in the Fall. They offer two years worth of classes. Not sure what to do once those two years of classes are up - but I'll worry about that when that time comes. |
I'd say worry sooner. A couple of years of JC classes won't necessarily give you that much fluency unless you really apply yourself. Plan ahead.
I took night classes (2-3 hours a night, twice a week) for a year in uni, and it barely got me anywhere despite acing the course. Also, Japanese has several levels of politeness including the horrendous keigo. You yourself may not choose to use it (and will get by simply because you are a foreigner), but you will hear it and read it. Meetings are usually conducted only in Japanese, tons of documents / email are produced, and meetings are often held with the insane juvenile practice of reading aloud these documents just so people's hands are held and they are ensured of having read them. My monthly staff meeting (with teachers of PE, philosophy, J literature, German, and English) have tons of such time-wasting crap, about 10 pages worth each time, and no chance to look them over before the meeting.
| Quote: |
| No publications. Would like to speak at a CA TESOL (Ca= California, not Canada) next year. Is giving lectures like this beneficial? Or is it a wash? |
Not much. It will be a very minor portion of points in your favor for a review committee to consider. Single-author research publications in international peer-reviewed journals are best. Just saying you made a presentation at CA-TESOL is almost not worth is. Anyone can make a presentation.
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| If I do give a lecture |
Presentation. Lectures are for classrooms.
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| then I'd likely try to publish an article on the same topic. |
Good, but most such pubs take 1-2 years before they are finished. Editing pipelines for journals are long.
| Quote: |
| At this exact moment (having *just* graduated last Friday) I'm a bit burnt out to think about writing again, but in June I plan on starting some research and reaching out to my (now former) adviser for some mentoring in getting published. |
So you graduated without publishing a single thing?
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| Lastly, while it isn't *just* experience, I know it helps. And I am wondering how volunteer ESL works looks on a resume. Can you offer any insight on this? |
Again, this is pretty minor for uni jobs. Doesn't hurt, but it won't weigh heavily. |
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think_balance
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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First, there's a weird bug or something - I see part of your post, but when I quote it, I see much more... not sure why that is.
| Glenski wrote: |
| think_balance wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| Waiting to hear more about your perception of achieving language fluency and publications... |
I haven't any fluency in Japanese yet. I'll be taking Japanese classes at my local JC in the Fall. They offer two years worth of classes. Not sure what to do once those two years of classes are up - but I'll worry about that when that time comes. |
I'd say worry sooner. A couple of years of JC classes won't necessarily give you that much fluency unless you really apply yourself. Plan ahead. |
What happens after those two years will depend on finances. I haven't any debt, so I should be able to have enough saved to move to Japan and study the language intensively there. Not sure how long I would need, but I'm planning on at least six months of intensive studies. Any advice you want to offer on that?
| Quote: |
| Good, but most such pubs take 1-2 years before they are finished. Editing pipelines for journals are long. |
Then it's a good thing I'm starting my meta-research (that is, deciding what to write on, etc.) next month. I can't go back in time to start earlier, so this is the best I can do. And no - I didn't publish anything in graduate school. I think you know from my other posts that I'm a cancer survivor, so I was more focused on that.
Also, I'm looking for an assistant professor position (not sure if I am using the right term, here) not a full time position. I realize neither are simple to get, but are the requirements as stringent for both? Or an assistant prof. position easier to come by? |
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shostahoosier
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: |
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I think you should focus on Japanese, especially if your goal is to settle in a university in Japan.
I took a few years of Japanese in college (minor) and I'm studying Korean now. The two languages share some concepts (particles, sentence structure, even cognates from Chinese) but they're different enough that learning both at at the same time could give you fits if you're starting from scratch.
Glenski is absolutely right that 2 years might not give you much development. I've seen some universities that cover the entire first year book over the course of 4 semesters/6 quarters (so 2 years) and others that cover Genki 1+2 in one year. Most jr. colleges tend to move pretty slowly. You'll still be learning though.
You will be able to learn the Korean writing system in 2-3 hours. It was designed so that even a complete idiot could learn it over the course of a few weeks. The Japanese writing system will take much longer though, especially when you get to the 2000 frequently used Kanji. On the flip side Japanese phonetics are pretty straightforward (in my opinion) but Korean phonetics are a real pain.
I would stick solely with Japanese, and if you get the chance to work in Korea, then maybe pick up some things there. I was able to blow through 1 year of college level Korean in about 3 months on my own thanks to knowing Japanese.
The truth though is that you're what...4-6 years away from your goal of living in Japan? I'm not sure if all of your plans are practical - though I guess you're probably asking questions here to perfect your action plan. |
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think_balance
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| shostahoosier wrote: |
| though I guess you're probably asking questions here to perfect your action plan. |
Exactly. It's not like I plan on hopping a plane tmw and expect to land a dream job. I have to wait three years to be certified cancer free and I want to put that time to good use. So, studying Japanese is obviously a top priority. Getting published is as well. The hard part is landing experience, which is why I thought Korea might be a good intermediary step.
There's a point where I will have to take a huge risk, quit my job here in the U.S. and either study the language more in Japan, or simply start pounding the pavement there.
But again, I have at least three years to plan for this, so best to put those three years to the best use possible. |
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