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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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 Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| demitrescou wrote: |
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| There is more to life than reflecting on what job you could have done and what you might have become. |
Not when you're single with no serious commitments/responsibilities.
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I'm single with no serious commitments/responsibilities and I still agree that there is more to life than reflecting on past failures, which is basically what you're asking about.
As a young girl, I wanted to be an Olympic gold medalist figure skater. Didn't happen. In university (at least as an undergrad), I studied a few different fields that interested me, and still somehow ended up teaching. It was quite a lucky mistake or accident, because 12 years on I still enjoy it and really can't imagine what else I would want to do. Sure, I've changed countries a few times and had some ups and downs along the way, but my enthusiasm about the job remains constant. So even though I didn't fulfill my childhood dream and never imagined myself living/working abroad, I have no regrets or "what if?" scenarios.
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Dear santi84,
"We can't all be Britney Spears or Arnold."
Thank God for that. One of each of those is MORE than enough.
Regards,
John |
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bdawg_2
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 12
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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At 29 years old I am at the rock bottom of my organization as I just started my new profession. One of my many superiors is a 26 year old guy who already has his MCIP and RPP professional designations. He is very successful and I would be lying if I said I didn't feel inferior. In fact, relative to essentially all of my peers, I am professionally (and depending on who you are talking too) personally unaccomplished for someone my age. I don't own property, I'm only beginning to invest in mutual funds, I don't own a nice vehicle, I'm not married or in a serious relationship and I don't have kids.
That said, I've travelled to 35 countries, I've climbed a 22,000ft mountain in India, I've been to both sides of Mount Everest. I've been around the world 3 times, I've taken the Trans-Siberian AND the Trans-Mongolian. I've skied in 3 continents, and I put in 35 days last year on the slopes. I've seen the Dalai Lama in India (twice) and I toughed out grad school + shitty unemployment for three years to land a meaningful job doing good work I believe in.
The only item I truly regret is that my efforts at learning Mandarin didn't work out better....but it's not a regret I lose sleep about which is probably indicative of how important it was to me. In comparison, I would continue to hate myself for the rest of my life if I had not used my TEFL time to visit Mount Everest.
It certainly is very easy to feel unaccomplished, especially if one is running through a trough in their life. It is somewhat cliche, but lists are a good method to realize what you HAVE done and can provide immense assistance to helping you achieve what you WANT to do. It is also important to be comfortable with your own abilities. Like a previous poster mentioned not everyone can be a Schwarzenegger or Clara Hughes or a rags-to-riches Andrew Carnegie-type. Most of us (with some deviation, of course) are by definition in the middle of the normal curve. While I don't believe it is a license not to 'try' and 'go the extra mile' it something many should make an effort at coming to terms with. You would be surprised how accomplished you can be, and how good you can feel about yourself when you accept and embrace your limitations. |
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demitrescou
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice post bdawg. But I believe it's often more about lack of effort and determination to succeed as opposed to our limitations because we're just 'normal' average Joes. Or alternatively a lack of direction in life and never really knowing what you want to strive towards achieving. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
I actually think that teaching language (at its best moments) helps to empower students to maximise their potential - if I contribute something to that, what grander outcome could I hope for?
After all, I've had students who are leading coalitions of countries in sustainable manufacturing, are involved in progressive governments, are involved in energy exploration (and exploitation, I admit), who are doctors and nurses and international attorneys - every grand job/purpose I can think of.
I'm honoured to contribute to their success. |
Folk become doctors or attorneys for whatever reason. Having English lessons is not one of them. That is so arrogant and sounds like a British Council website. What about contemporary and successful Russian or Chinese business people, for example, who speak no English?
Much lower down come people like me and my German language skills, or lack of. Somehow, I�ve reached an OK level, but I still have private (and expensive) lessons in an effort to keep what I�ve learned. It�s just another language; it hasn�t made me a better person. My brilliant German teacher will neither increase my IQ, nor inspire me to find a cure for cancer.
Facilitating someone to learn a language is noble, but it�s just that, i.e. learning a language. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Hod,
Arrogant? I don't think it sounds arrogant at all. As teachers I would hope that we help our students to better themselves.
I mean, we're not in it for the BIG BUCKS, are we?
Are there any teachers that you've had that you still recall who helped you become better? I can remember some of mine (and they were all English teachers.)
Regards,
John |
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artemisia
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe it's often more about lack of effort and determination to succeed as opposed to our limitations because we're just 'normal' average Joes. Or alternatively a lack of direction in life and never really knowing what you want to strive towards achieving. |
This thread seems to me to be about the �cult� of the individual (perhaps closely related to the cult of celebrity) � that feeling that the individual is always more special and important than anything else. I doubt such a question of �success� and self-determination in life could ever be raised outside of western countries; I�m not sure anyone would understand it.
However, even within western countries, I think there are different notions as to what construes success and it isn�t necessarily defined by work. Unfortunately, the current western focus on celebrity probably has dumbed-down a wider definition of success but in terms of my own idea? Basiltherat and Spiral78 have probably come closest to it. It�s not just what you�ve done in your life but the pleasure you take in those around you and the success they�ve achieved especially when it�s related to how you�ve helped them � that might be family, friends and for me - yes, students, too. Seeing people develop partly because of what you�ve done for them and become excited by their own achievements has its rewards. As far as wanting to do more goes � write a book (Johnslat) or find some other creative or athletic outlet, those things are possible at any age (except maybe ballet and certain sports!) but it�s less likely it�ll be your �job�. Developing yourself and your own abilities is as important as anything else and seeking outside recognition for that is a part of but not the whole story.
Always wanting more � is this determined by culture or is it just the human condition to never be satisfied? I think it's determined by the culture you're raised in and the opportunities made available to you as well as your role models. |
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Trinley
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I plan on spinning my ESL background into a career as a Hollywood actress.  |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Hod,
Arrogant? I don't think it sounds arrogant at all. As teachers I would hope that we help our students to better themselves.
I mean, we're not in it for the BIG BUCKS, are we?
Are there any teachers that you've had that you still recall who helped you become better? I can remember some of mine (and they were all English teachers.)
Regards,
John |
It�s natural that good teachers want students to better themselves, but a language teacher can do little more than improve a student�s language and cannot contribute to a student�s quest to become a lawyer, etc.
Now you mention it, my favourite teacher at school taught English. I even e-mailed him last year, twenty-five years late, to say how inspirational he was when it came to making me read fiction. He was exceptional, and partly due to him I am now a prolific reader, but reading is sadly only a much-loved pastime and doesn�t pay the bills. |
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artemisia
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ..reading is sadly only a much-loved pastime and doesn�t pay the bills. |
I think you've missed the point. Presumably teaching English paid HIS bills as well as doing something of value for others!
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| .. a language teacher can do little more than improve a student�s language and cannot contribute to a student�s quest to become a lawyer, etc. |
That's simply not true when you have students who need English language skills specific to their jobs. In most cases they've already chosen their profession but not always. I've had engineers specifically thank me for the skills and knowledge they developed that were so important for their jobs. I've also had students working and still training in their field (banking) do the same. But perhaps you've never had ESP teaching experience. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| artemisia wrote: |
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| .. a language teacher can do little more than improve a student�s language and cannot contribute to a student�s quest to become a lawyer, etc. |
That's simply not true when you have students who need English language skills specific to their jobs. In most cases they've already chosen their profession but not always. I've had engineers specifically thank me for the skills and knowledge they developed that were so important for their jobs. |
Fair enough, but I now work in a German engineering company. Some colleagues barely speak English, which hasn�t hindered their careers at all. People can still be intelligent and successful with little or no English ability.
Other colleagues, meanwhile, speak and especially write great English. Like most Germans, they reminisce daily about school and university. But although they�ve spent years working with this former English teacher, I�ve heard none of them mention past English lessons or teachers. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| I agree with Hod. yes, English MAY help some people in their career, but there are plenty of monolingual doctors, dentists, lawyers, etc and they are highly successful. |
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breacan
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 11:28 am Post subject: |
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When I was a kid, I wanted to be Indiana Jones.
Ever since, I've done everything possible to become (metaphorically) Indiana Jones - adventure, travel, etc. Aside from fame, which is a difficult thing because it's decided by others, I believe all you need to do pretty much anything is to decide you're going to do it, find out how, and then do it.
I'm not rich, but I've had a hell of a ride. That's what was important to me. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Dear naturegirl321 and Hod,
"I agree with Hod. yes, English MAY help some people in their career, but there are plenty of monolingual doctors, dentists, lawyers, etc and they are highly successful."
MAY???? That makes me wonder just whom you teach. Can I assume that all your students are taking English classes only for their own personal satisfaction, that acquiring more English is completely irrelevant to their careers?
If so, that seems odd to me since all the students I've had in my (so far) thirty-three years of EFL/ESL have had career advancement as at least ONE of their motivations.
I certainly agree that there are "plenty of monolingual doctors, dentists, lawyers, etc and they are highly successful," but I don't see how that would contradict the fact that for many others, acquiring a better command of English has helped them in their careers. The two categories are hardly mutually exclusive.
Maybe I'm missing some important facts here, but I simply can't understand your point.
Regards,
John |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
| Fair enough, but I now work in a German engineering company. Some colleagues barely speak English, which hasn�t hindered their careers at all. |
I'm sorry, but just how do you know that? It may not have hindered them in getting where they are now, but engineering and science worldwide have English as a lingua franca. I don't know your colleagues, but I would bet that they would have plenty of opportunities to use English (spoken or written) in conferences, international trade or other cooperative ventures, etc. If they were more fluent, they would be able to participate more, learn more (engineering), and contribute to their companies more, thus becoming more valuable to the company and potentially move up the ranks.
| Quote: |
| People can still be intelligent and successful with little or no English ability. |
Nobody here is saying otherwise.
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| Facilitating someone to learn a language is noble, but it�s just that, i.e. learning a language. |
Depends on how you look at it. Apparently, you have a rather low opinion of English teachers in EFL/ESL. TEFL is not solely about teaching grammar. It can include much more:
making people (like engineers, scientists, businesspeople) better presenters or negotiators
translating important documents (or teaching how)
interpreting at important functions
teaching content classes in English (CLIL, Google it)
overcoming learning hurdles of many kinds, sometimes even making policy
Are we gods? No, but we are not "just" language teachers, either.
Last edited by Glenski on Sun May 22, 2011 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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