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Aristede
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 180
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 Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: Re: SCAMS |
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| deadlift wrote: |
Oh come on now. Don't you think this is overstating things a little? It might be true for Pham Ngu Lao but you don't have to go far out of the heart of D1 for things to change dramatically. Where I live, in Da Kao ward, there are no scammers, no plain sight dealers, no hawkers, no hookers. I pay what everyone else is paying and get all my change back.
I've had plenty of scammers try it on with me, so I'm not pretending they don't exist, but you can't say that every Vietnamese person who approaches you is out to get their hooks into you.
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First of all, though the scammers I met were in Vietnam, they actually were Filipinos. The Vietnamese Pham Ngu Lao touts were just doing the usual stuff--offering motorbike rides, selling books, wanting to clean your shoes, etc.
And though every Vietnamese (or SE Asian) may not be trying to get their hooks into me, responding "as if" and not answering such questions forthrightly means there's no way the hooks will get into me if they are trying.
Having worked in China, I know that people in Asia will ask questions westerners won't, but honestly I find such questions from a stranger intrusive even when well-intended. |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: SCAMS |
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| snollygoster wrote: |
Thats a bit more sophisticated than the one some Viet females pull, like the "New boyfriend, my mum lives in a hovel down in the Mekong and could you help her to upgrade her house by letting me send her a little money".
Mr Walking ATM opens up the wallet because he's in love, and Miss lovely says thanks, and continues the relationship as long as Mr Walking ATM keeps shelling out for the house in the Mekong.
One day he asks to see his investment in the form of improvements in the house in the Mekong, and suddenly the Miss lovely can not be located again.
Of course she tries this on with 2 or 3 other "Walking ATMs" who also fall for the big eyes and the generous nature of Miss Lovely who wants to provide for her disadvantaged mum.
With just a couple of million dong a month from each of her current Walking ATMs, she has a nice income by Viet standards, has no mum down the Mekong, and enjoys the challenge of using her body and her wits to watch her string of Walking ATMs gladly part with their hard earned money. And she (and her friends and even her REAL boyfriend or husband) enjoy a good laugh at the vulnerability of the victim of their scam, as they talk about their hatred of the westerner. Ha ha ha!
Of course, she will never tell you about her "other" Walking ATMs- Why should she- she's having a great sex life, and enjoys the challenge of stringing out her Walking ATM for as long as she can. |
Voice of experience? 
This was another one I read about before I came to Vietnam. But in reality, I've had trouble getting girls to allow me to pay for anything. |
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snollygoster
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:29 am Post subject: Naive |
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Outside the heravily populated "tay" areas, the intentions change with the locals.
Been in village communities where the questions are genuine curiosity-but in the "tay" haunts, its best to err on th side of caution.
The lovely with the flashy clothes, good make up well applied, driving a late model bike in the "tay" areas is to be regarded with a lot more stealth than the country girl in the ba ba outfit selling noodles in the market in a country town.
Thats not to say there are not innocent people with genuine curiosity in the more "foreign" areas, but to say MOST are on the lookout for a walking ATM is probably correct.
Voice of experience? Yes- A little different to the usual posted one, but similar enough to qualify. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: Re: SCAMS |
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| deadlift wrote: |
| Aristede wrote: |
| What I've learned from the predators here is that there is no such thing as a question stemming from innocent curiosity or geniality. "Where you come from?" "Where you stay?" "How long you stay in ___?" etc. all have a common purpose--to gauge how much money you have and how to squeeze it out of you. |
Oh come on now. Don't you think this is overstating things a little? It might be true for Pham Ngu Lao but you don't have to go far out of the heart of D1 for things to change dramatically. Where I live, in Da Kao ward, there are no scammers, no plain sight dealers, no hawkers, no hookers. I pay what everyone else is paying and get all my change back.
I've had plenty of scammers try it on with me, so I'm not pretending they don't exist, but you can't say that every Vietnamese person who approaches you is out to get their hooks into you.
In Le Van Tam park I'm regularly approached with the same questions you cite. So far it's been questions about my tattoos (incidentally, this is a common opening of the Filipino scammers); an invitation to have a look at the English books in the free library that some students run in the park; an invitation to play badminton; someone asking me to settle an argument about the pronunciation of an English word; and someone who saw my school logo on my backpack and wanted to know if I teach their daughter.
Sometime ago a xe om driver asked me "where you live", "how long you stay". I was cagey at first, but he simply had seen me around and wanted to know if he could be my regular xe om. He's never ripped me off, given me plenty of credit when I've had no change.
There's a lot of room for careful common sense in the middle ground between naivete and paranoia. |
Generally, in The Five Big S--ties - MOD EDIT APPROACHING - of Can Tho, Da Nang, Hai Phong, Ha Noi and HCMC, your story of genuinely curious locals and sunshine endings is by far the exception as opposed to the rule in Viet Nam! |
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deadlift
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Don't mis-characterise my point as "sunshine endings", thanks.
It's not as if I'm trying to paint an idyllic picture, here. Just making the point that not all questions from strangers are opening gambits of scams and ripoffs, particularly when you get out of the tourist areas.
I agree wholeheartedly that people should be cautious in those situations, particularly about giving out any personal information.
But, it is my opinion, and I know others will disagree, that adopting a "trust no-one" attitude can actually colour your interactions in a negative way. A little bit of good faith mixed with common sense goes a long way and doesn't mean that you're going to walk blindly into cons.
Also, I've spent a lot of time in Da Nang, and I have found it to be the most hassle free city in Vietnam. The local authorities are very tough on touts, and I have only ever been approached by xe-om drivers. Even they are more laid back and less persistent than in other places.
Last edited by deadlift on Mon May 23, 2011 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Mmmm-kay.....
I don't know - the friends of mine who DID take said "trust-no-one" attitude were the ones who never got taken for a ride or ripped off. Those friends who had the Roses-and-Rainbows outlook on The Vietnamese people and said "It's just like ANY OTHER CITY in the U.K./Oz/U.S.A/etc. - just use common sense"generally found themselves disillusioned after a couple ugly incidents in their first two months.
Da Nang is by far thee most livable city....people are actually polite (by Vietnamese standards), they do NOT cut the queue, they say "Hello" and sometimes even open the door for you....but having spent time there, I can state that there are still scams and not so nice people there....but much less so than in any of the other Big Five. |
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deadlift
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Will you not acknowledge that there is a relatively safe middle ground between trust no-one and roses and rainbows?
Will you also not acknowledge that I have not been talking about roses nor rainbows?
It seems like someone can't say something moderately positive about this place without being labeled a naive, bright-eyed idealist. |
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snollygoster
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:20 am Post subject: Balanced |
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I agree with deadlift- A bit of balance wouldnt go astray. A lot of posters here seem to have only bad stories of woe and misery, and others couldn't suck up more.
Theres good and bad in everything-so a bit of the story from both sides is better.
Lies lies lies-Scams scams scams Yes- But there is also the lovely sound of a Viet mother singing her baby to sleep at night-beautiful places in the countryside-impressive mountains in the north west- Food to die for.
Come on folks- its not ALL bad or ALL Heaven. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| deadlift wrote: |
Will you not acknowledge that there is a relatively safe middle ground between trust no-one and roses and rainbows?
Will you also not acknowledge that I have not been talking about roses nor rainbows?
It seems like someone can't say something moderately positive about this place without being labeled a naive, bright-eyed idealist. |
Very well said!
I couldn't agree more with what you have been saying deadlift. One just needs to use common sense. Personally I think I'm perhaps overly cautious (which I think is a good thing) but I'm not paranoid. The Vietnamese are just people like any other and, like any race, they have their own cultural quirks. Some Vietnamese are good and some are bad.
| LettersAthruZ wrote: |
I don't know - the friends of mine who DID take said "trust-no-one" attitude were the ones who never got taken for a ride or ripped off. Those friends who had the Roses-and-Rainbows outlook on The Vietnamese people and said "It's just like ANY OTHER CITY in the U.K./Oz/U.S.A/etc. - just use common sense"generally found themselves disillusioned after a couple ugly incidents in their first two months. |
Well, I like to think to think I "just use common sense" and I've experienced nothing that could be described as an "ugly incident" yet and I've been here a lot longer than two months.
| snollygoster wrote: |
I agree with deadlift- A bit of balance wouldnt go astray. A lot of posters here seem to have only bad stories of woe and misery, and others couldn't suck up more.
Theres good and bad in everything-so a bit of the story from both sides is better.
Lies lies lies-Scams scams scams Yes- But there is also the lovely sound of a Viet mother singing her baby to sleep at night-beautiful places in the countryside-impressive mountains in the north west- Food to die for.
Come on folks- its not ALL bad or ALL Heaven. |
Hear, hear! Below is part of one my previous posts on another thread. It's a bit old but I think it's relevant:
| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
But, every now and then, something will happen that can make even the most jaded expat have a re-think I was driving a rented scooter whilst I was on holiday in Hoi Ann about a year ago and got into an accident with another driver (her fault). Anyway a crowd gathered and after dusting myself off I realised that my wallet must have fallen out of my pocket during the collision. The wallet had several forms of ID, one of my credit cards, ATM card, some business cards and cash (about half a million dong). Spent about five minutes trying to find it but no luck. Figured someone in the crowd had seen it lying on the street and picked it up and possibly walked off with it. Got back on the bike and rushed to the hotel to call the bank to cancel my cards. Wasn't worried about losing the cash but the bank cards and the ID were going to be a real hassle to replace. Next morning, a Vietnamese mother and daughter came into the hotel where I was staying (fortunately I had the hotel's business card in my wallet) and returned the lot  They were reluctant to accept it but I insisted that they keep the cash as a finders fee. I'm sure other people living here have stories similar to this. |
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andwar
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: Pagodas in Vietnam |
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| What about the Pagodas? I'm moving to SG on June 16th. I'm an American-Buddhist. Have a Viet wife. Like doing meditation (Zen). I want to spend some of my free time at Pagodas in SG. How to know which Pagodas have honest, real monks (not fake, ______agents)? What scams to look out for at Pagodas? Is Truc Lam in Da Lat considered genuine? What about Ch�a Linh Sơn in Da Lat? I can speak some Vietnamese, and know Buddhist chants in Vietnamese. In the US, I have always been well received at Vietnamese Buddhist Temples, but I'm generally warned to watch myself at pagodas in VN...told that___________control is pervasive in Vietnamese pagodas. Comments please... |
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Aristede
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
I couldn't agree more with what you have been saying deadlift. One just needs to use common sense. Personally I think I'm perhaps overly cautious (which I think is a good thing) but I'm not paranoid. The Vietnamese are just people like any other and, like any race, they have their own cultural quirks. Some Vietnamese are good and some are bad.
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Consider too that there is no universal standard of common sense. Common sense for one person may be paranoia to another.
Anyone noticeably outside his/her native environment is more likely to be detected and targeted by lowlife vermin if they see an opportunity. This is true even in unfamiliar regions of one's home country. When you add an ethnic and language difference, it elevates visibility and vulnerability.
So no, it certainly is not something only seen in Vietnam. However, it does seem that in some cultures there is no great social stigma attached to cheating someone given the chance. |
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snollygoster
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:31 pm Post subject: Truc Lam |
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| Truc Lam in Da Lat is good stuff- Dont know about the others. Lo=ts of small ones particularly in Hanoi-Vary in genuineness. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Aristede wrote: |
| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
I couldn't agree more with what you have been saying deadlift. One just needs to use common sense. Personally I think I'm perhaps overly cautious (which I think is a good thing) but I'm not paranoid. The Vietnamese are just people like any other and, like any race, they have their own cultural quirks. Some Vietnamese are good and some are bad.
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Consider too that there is no universal standard of common sense. Common sense for one person may be paranoia to another.
Anyone noticeably outside his/her native environment is more likely to be detected and targeted by lowlife vermin if they see an opportunity. This is true even in unfamiliar regions of one's home country. When you add an ethnic and language difference, it elevates visibility and vulnerability.
So no, it certainly is not something only seen in Vietnam. However, it does seem that in some cultures there is no great social stigma attached to cheating someone given the chance. |
I have no doubt that foreigners here are disproportionately targeted by criminals.
In regards to my usage of the term "common sense", I think my understanding of this concept is the same as most people. What I meant by it was, in this context, is that people should be aware of their surroundings and exercise appropriate precautions. For example, I am sure that most people here would agree that locking up your home in Saigon when you are not there is sensible. People who disagree with this (and who see it as paranoid and unnecessary) would be in the minority and their views could rightly be considered as uncommon.
I see your point about there being no set "universal standards", but it's no different than every law court in the English speaking world's love affair with the word "reasonable". It is the best word we can use to cover so many potential variables.
In regards to personal security, what is "common sense" will depend to an extent on the person and certainly the place. I do things in Vietnam I would never have done back in South Africa. Personally, I guess I evaluate whether something is "common sense" or not much the same way as Justice Stewart judged whether something could be classified as pornography (i.e. "I know when I see it"). |
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andwar
Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll answer my own question regarding Pagodas. Never discuss politics or anything related to the_______________when speaking with monks, nuns or anyone else at a Pagoda. Don't waste much time speaking with monks or nuns who don't meditate; less serious monks & nuns spend their time in gossip, or chanting for a fee (people give offerings to the monks to chant for family members, living & deceased). Pagodas in top condition probably receive money from the_______________; avoid these - a likely home of fake monks &__________informers. Run down Pagodas with monks who actually meditate are probably the real deal. Truc Lam is the exception in that the facilities are 1st rate - it is a Da Lat tourist site as well as training monastery. Its leader, Zen Master Thich Thanh Tu knows how to play the________ while maintaining Zen monasteries throughout VN, plus two Zen sitting groups in SG. As with monks in the US, avoid any monk or nun who speaks loudly, enjoys gossip, craves attention, is addicted to the microphone, donations & beer! I have met good monks & nuns in the US & VN; but one must be careful. A final note - many charlatans promote fake charities at Pagodas - don't be a victim - donate your money directly to the charity or NGO of your choice. |
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Andy123
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| andwar is correct. He nailed it on the head. |
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