Job Discussion Forums

[the_otter]

[Tudor]

One reference book I use is the Oxford Learner's Pocket Grammar. As it's been compiled specifically for (intermediate) learners it's very easy to follow with clear examples, and most of the 180 grammar sections contain a 'tip' as to further usage. Due to its size, I actually take this into class with me and it's saved my skin on a couple of occasions.

If this book can't answer my question, then I'll refer to Swan which covers more grammar points more in-depth.

[gaijinalways]

I have a book on grammar by Azure as well as Swan's. Good to have when you want to be able to give good examples on complex grammar (doesn't happen very often, at least for what I find complex).

As to activities, lots of free stuff on the Internet, though I have heard that the book by Ur is very good ( I regret not purchasing it, though unfortunately it doesn't have photo-copyable pages, just ideas for activities).

I teach using Interchange Intro, 50-50, and World Link 2. There are pros and cons with these books. You'll often find that you'll supplement heavily with any textbook, and find some sections you may wish to skip (either too boring or too time consuming for what they hope to accomplish).

If you teach ESP classes, you may need books on presentations, debate, etc..

[spiral78]

[fluffyhamster]

The problem with using let alone depending on the internet too much is that there will be differences of analysis, terminology, and opinion. (Of course, hidden away in all that may well be the best, most useful interpretation ever, but it will probably take a quite informed reader to actually realize that!). Probably better then to get at least one good book and become familiar with its own conventions first.

I find the "tension" between Nick's and Isla's opinions interesting, because it points to a real lack of instruction/grammar induction on cert courses. The plain fact of the matter is that many trainees will have had little or no formal grammar education in school (or what they did receive was inadequate), but on these certs they are more or less just thrown a copy of Swan or whatever and expected to get themselves up to speed within the week or so allotted for pre-course preparation tasks. Most people of course do get up to reasonable speed, but the grammar can and will always be a struggle to learn throughout the course (I mean, one is often still only just learning what one is about to "expertly" teach!?), and there are quite yawning gaps left even after completing the most well-run course. What turned out to have prepared me better than most was my undergraduate reading of a course in grammar by Leech et al called English Grammar for Today (now in a Second Edition), though somewhat more informal books by the likes of Gordon Jarvie (his Bloomsbury Grammar Guide) can also be read with profit.

Anyway, the main advantage of books like Swan's PEU is that its wide use gives its terminology more currency (than e.g. SFG, Systemic-Functional Grammar, terminology, as used in the still very useful "lexicogrammar" [essentially, lists of words that share a similar grammatical structuring and thus meaning] of the COBUILD English Grammar), and it should be available to (re)buy in most places you may find yourself TEFLing (that is, I'm not sure that it'd be the one grammar book I'd pack - Eastwood's Oxford Guide to English Grammar is better IMHO, in that it is as detailed, but in a "grammar proper" i.e. word-to-sentence format/organization rather than Swan's "quick access" A-Z, the latter of which is obviously much harder to read through and really learn from at any length. I see that Tudor has mentioned the very portable and dinky Oxford Learner's Pocket Grammar, IIRC also by Eastwood, which might be another option, though personally I'd go more for the full-size Eastwood I just mentioned. Then, the Oxford Learner's Pocket Dictionary is another very dinky resource that might take your fancy, though again, you really can't beat a full-size learner dictionary, and most now come with very useful CD-ROMs attached. (The reason I'm mentioning these learner dictionaries is that they nowadays contain far more grammar and collocational information than most people realize. Probably the Oxford Advanced Learner's has about the clearest grammar codes, but I also really like the Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English for its strict ordering of items by actual frequency criteria. You can get a good idea of what each is like by Googling for the online free versions. As for vocabulary and lexis generally - always a profitable area to study and teach - books by Norbert Schmitt and/or Michael McCarthy are reliable guides to this area, whilst Lewis' The Lexical Approach could well resonate with you and your experiences [he picks apart what he feels is wrong with many so-called "communicative" practices] once you've got a year or two under your belt with which to compare to what he's saying)).

Each time I see Azar recommended I find it difficult to resist advising people to steer well clear. There was a bit of discussion about this a year or two ago, but the short version is that there is reason to suspect that the examples she uses are often invented i.e. not genuine, and therefore not as compelling as, those one can find in IMHO superior works such as Murphy's Grammar in Use series (but remember that the likes of Azar and even Murphy are learner exercise books, i.e. somewhat limited and simplified, rather than proper, fully-detailed reference grammars for teachers...so while they may be good for a quick "crash course" e.g. before or while doing a CELTA, or when lacking enough research and prep time once in the job, they won't be enough for serious teachers in the long run). It may be that Azar introduces the teacher to a bit more grammar terminology than some, but a pedagogical grammar should ultimately present convincing and useful examples of the language it is claiming to portray. All that being said, there are arguments that can be made for a slight air of unreality sometimes (see e.g. Widdowson's comments, that I've quoted before on the forums (i.e. do a search)).

I'm not into methodology guides/general teaching books much, as the most important thing IMHO is actual LINGUISTIC KNOWLEDGE (and the organization thereof) than the hand-waving and window-dressing, and a truly conversational approach (which is pretty much what is generally expected in most places, what most employers expect) should be as much common sense/feel natural (to you as an individual) in its/your "presentation", as come (instead) from the virtual standardized one-size-fits-all dictats of "authorities" (but hey, some teachers prefer to follow such dictats no matter how unnatural, stilted, patronizing, counterproductive etc it makes them appear let alone feel). If however you aren't sure or happy following your natural instincts, Thornbury & Slade's Conversation: From Description to Pedagogy is a dependable guide to conversation and discourse analysis, and helps points the way to more natural, conversational methodology. Then, a lot of books miss out on the historical dimensions in ELT (which help show that a lot of what is supposedly new and/or revolutionary has been tried and tested before). The sorts of books I prefer then are Lewis & Hill's short but pithy Practical Techniques, and Howatt's A History of ELT. You won't go too far wrong though with the likes of the Harmer(s), and the Scrivener, already mentioned by previous posters. The work by Cook that GBBB suggested is however IMHO more suited to those especially interested in or about to take courses in SLA (Second Language Acquisition, which can be a quite theoretical~controversial area), but wanting more pedagogically-oriented introductions than is the norm in that area, than for neophytes to language teaching generally...but it is a good and interesting book nonetheless and definitely worth getting hold of at some point (though probably slightly later).

This topic, thread, and my post here are all similar (though not identical) to another recent one (here: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=944807#944807 ), and over the years there have actually been quite a few such threads asking for book recommendations (perhaps try searching for 'grammar AND book' or 'CELTA AND book' with me as author for a start (if only to help cut down on the number of results)).

[spiral78]

[Dragonlady]

[gaijinalways]

spiral78 posted

[fluffyhamster]

Don't get me wrong, Dragonlady, of course the internet is a great resource...but I do still think it has to be used with caution* (esp. by newbs), and there are some things that one just won't find online (hence the piles of resources we've often had to leave behind!). And my feeling is that anybody who might be struggling with a mere single book (not so much struggling to understand its contents per se, but simply in "getting to grips with it all" generally, or even with the idea of wanting to buy it in the first place) will find the internet's "masses" of information somewhat overwhelming...unless of course they stumble, probably through luck as much as judgement, upon a site that answers a certain question or questions better than the book does. (Wikipedia? LOL).

Hi Gaijinalways, perhaps you can look in your edition (latest ~?) and tell us if it is indeed true or not (IYHO).

Salutations to you too, Spiral! Hmm, if Azar (for example) was the best-phrased or last word on a certain point then I could understand the occasional use made of it, but if (as I suspect) teachers are using a particular resource simply for want of looking for anything better, then that would IMHO be a slight cause for concern.


*Even though few resources are as egregiously wrong as e.g. the ETAQ junk reported on Language Log, there are doubtless still some that will raise eyebrows, and I can't think of more than a handful (of good or halfway-decent ones I mean) that I've actually ever bookmarked, and then, only for the odd definition or two and/or to direct others to than using very often myself. (I guess I find turning pages and printed format to be just as convenient as online searching and HTML links etc, though there are certainly some subject areas e.g. looking up Chinese characters, where online versions of reference works can undoubtedly save time (assuming of course that one always has access to the internet)).

[spiral78]

[fluffyhamster]

I can sure see how Azar (or indeed too much of even Murphy) could clash with a 'student-centered, task-based' approach, but personally my main concern isn't so much that necessarily super-communicative use be made of materials, but rather simply that they ARE communicative in the first place! (I mean, it just makes life harder for everyone when books are full of lame-o examples that need too much contextualizing to make real sense and use of...those of the 'The student is holding a book' variety).

[gaijinalways]

fluffyhamster I rarely refer to Swan's or Azar's, so I haven't looked at them recently. Just for you, I'll locate it and flip through my Azar's.

Most of the grammar I use is in the texts that I use (mentioned earlier). The only book I have with more advanced grammar is Northstar reading and writing 3, and I actually don't cover a lot of the grammar specifically as my class is more discussion driven than focusing lots of time on writing (my students do a few presentations, and write a few things, but not necessarily with the grammatical forms taught in the book).

spiral78 posted

[Jessb52]

Thanks for the detailed responses - I spoke with a friend recently used to TEFL and she couldn't believe I'd asked this question as she said it would go on forever, and I'd never be able to make a decision!

However, I had to buy something so I've gone for the Swan and the Scrivener. I've also gone for lessons in your rucksack by John Hughes. I'll let you know how I get on.

I know it's a bit of a library and of course the Internet has more options but, as above, there are so many different opinions and I must admit, at heart, I'm an old fashioned kinda gal and there's nothing like a good book

Thanks again,

Jess

[gaijinalways]

Fluffy,

I went in search of my Azar's, but to be honest, I think I purged it when I chucked a lot of books (both ESL/EFL and other genres) to make space on my shelves. I see my Swan's and several other books (some of which I could probably get rid of), but they can wait until the summer when I have more time and energy for it.

Maybe I will consider buying the recommended Murphy's if and when I start centering my classes more around grammar.