Job Discussion Forums

[moonraven]

I only spent chunks of time visiting Puebla City, and I indicated that I liked it--and I still like it. I usually wear both hats simultaneously. I don't believe you would be comfortable working for me.

[D Betts]

Phew...this forum has turned out to be quite a pedantic ride for me. I hope you are kinder to your students, Moonraven. Cheers for the knock back. Let's see, who else can I offend. To be honest I'm fairly new to forums, I never really saw the point in them. This one has been quite a learning curve. I've learnt to try and not write any typos; to check for grammar mistakes; to be mindful of others (I try to do this anyway in my day to day existence, I promise); to ignore exclamatory innuendos like "You LIVED in Puebla for a year and can't wait to get back!"; to read and take in valuable information (cheers again Inmexico & Johnslats); and above all, not to write a reply when one is a little bit toasted.
I would like to give something back to my fellow maestros, and that is a book I read 3 years ago. It was valuable then, and still is now. It's called, "How Languages are Learned" by Patsy M. Lightbown and Nancy Spada. Fascinating read. Please, no more pedantry. Just useful, constructive wisom, please.

Peace.

[moonraven]

Kinder to my students, D Betts? They describe me as a combination of Mom and Che Guevara. I am very nurturing, but do not suffer fools gladly....

[D Betts]

Listen Che with a dress. I thought it was fun playing this mental masturbation game of yours for a bit, but now you are just boring me. Go somewhere else and annoy them. Look in the mirror and suffer yourself. I've had more useful information sent to my private inbox than on this forum because of your inane tittle-tattle. This forum was supposed to help me, and maybe other teachers, look for employment in Puebla, instead you have turned it into verbal tennis match. I truly thank the people that sent me information to my inbox, you really helped.

Peace.

[D Betts]

It wasn't a swear word, I promise. I don't like swearing unless I'm REALLY annoyed.

Peace again.

[moonraven]

D Betts--If what you have written on this thread is an example of how you relate to potential employers, good luck. I didn't ask YOU for a job....

[Gringo Greg]

[moonraven]

Why is this thread attracting incredibly abusive and disrespectful people? Is it really helpful to attack other posters by calling them "grammar cops", pepper the page with adolescent jargon, or "fantasize" about the bar habits of complete strangers--especially about folks who left their bar days behind years ago? There is plenty of graffiti in the streets, guys! Why not grab a can of spray paint and let the testosterone roll?

[saraswati]

[Gringo Greg]

[quote="moonraven"]Why is this thread attracting incredibly abusive and disrespectful people? quote]

So abusive for you is defined as someone who tells you that you are probably not a good teacher. Didn't you say the same thing about a previous poster on this very thread? Please define abusive.

Maybe you are just paranoid. They have pills for that. At least now we all can give your posts the importance they deserve. Thanks for helping us out!

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[moonraven]

Ben:
Since on this Forum we are "supposed" to be anonymous, personal questions would seem to go against the security benefits offered by the Forum. However: I have not had formal management responsibilities since November of this academic year, as in addition to teaching I have been working on two books (one of which, thankfully, is finished.) The point I was trying to make--apparently not very successfully--is that folks WHO ARE ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR JOBS on this forum would be more likely to be hired or referred to specific employers (as I have done for 2 folks who sent me PMs during the past few days)--if they don't insult other posters. (Frankly, this would seem to fall under the categories of Common Sense and Self Interest.)

In regard to my statement about not hiring native speakers: I believe that one of the things we can do for the communities in which we work here in Mexico is to train people from those communities--especially people who have studied with us--to teach English. I do not intend this in an imperialistic sense, but from the perspective that there are folks here who are interested in becoming English teachers--and who are desperate enough to enroll in the "normales" in the program to become English teachers (which doesn't even teach them English!) I have also found that students learn English just as effectively from a well-trained Mexican teacher--and in some cases learning from them is easier, as Mexican teachers can aim their approach at mitigating the impact of the same difficulties they experienced when learning the language. As a rule, the Mexican teachers I have trained are very dedicated to what they see as their profession (folks I trained 5 to 8 years ago are really developing as teachers and are in high demand in their communities)--they aren't teaching English as a means to scrape together money to travel around Latin America, and therefore their level of commitment is much higher.

This approach obviously eliminates some of the opportunities for native speakers to teach English. But it would also reduce the problems of dependency and subsequent resentment that Mexican employers have had in regard to native speakers (the fairly widely held perception of native speakers as a necessary evil), and would result in teacher trainers receiving a more respectful treatment here, given that people providing consulting services or technical assistance are not typically perceived as taking a job away from someone in the local community.

I am very comfortable with making myself "obsolete" as an English teacher here. I also provide technical assistance to a couple of agricultural projects, which I will qualify as successes when I no longer have to dedicate time to them.

I understand that my personal philosophy may seem threatening to some of the folks in this forum. If that's the case, I am sorry.

[M@tt]

why is there resentment toward native speaker teachers? we have special skills that a non-native speaker can never have, and it seems desirable (to me) to have at least one native speaker in every department. if i ever teach spanish in the states, i hope there's at least one native speaker where i teach.
if there is a logical argument for the hostility, i would like to hear it.

[moonraven]

I don't believe that resentment is a logical process. We are talking about xenophobia and racism, in many cases--neither of which is rational. But I think we do have to realize that a fair number of native speakers present themselves in ways that are polarizing and denigrating to local people--especially local teachers. I am talking about an attitude of completely unwarranted superiority that is offensive. This is not something I am assuming or speculating about: I have seen many examples of arrogant and depreciative behavior on the part of "gringos" teaching English here in Mexico. After giving trainings about cultural sensitivity and finding that the behaviors persisted, as well as the complaints about them, I decided not to hire more native speakers for the language school I was directing, but to begin training qualified local folks as teachers. This decision happened to coincide in time with the 1995-96 economic crisis in Mexico, and it seemed to me that the community of students which supported the school--often at a considerable financial sacrifice--was more deserving of jobs than the foreigners who showed up on our doorstop with backpacks and the idea that they were God's gift to Mexico.

All of the local teachers that I trained are still teaching in their community--except for a couple who have been teaching in bilingual classroom programs in the States for several years. We are in a position to help people here realize their dreams--well, a few of them--and I believe that their dreams should take precedence over ours. We have a mucher wider menu of choices than they do, after all.

[moonraven]

[quote="moonraven"]I don't believe that resentment is a logical process. We are talking about xenophobia and racism, in many cases--neither of which is rational. But I think we do have to realize that a fair number of native speakers present themselves in ways that are polarizing and denigrating to local people--especially local teachers. I am talking about an attitude of completely unwarranted superiority that is offensive. This is not something I am assuming or speculating about: I have seen many examples of arrogant and depreciative behavior on the part of "gringos" teaching English here in Mexico. After giving trainings about cultural sensitivity and finding that the behaviors persisted, as well as the complaints about them, I decided not to hire more native speakers for the language school I was directing, but to begin training qualified local folks as teachers. This decision happened to coincide in time with the 1995-96 economic crisis in Mexico, and it seemed to me that the community of students which supported the school--often at a considerable financial sacrifice--was more deserving of jobs than the foreigners who showed up on our doorstop with backpacks and the idea that they were God's gift to Mexico.

All of the local teachers that I trained are still teaching in their community--except for a couple who have been teaching in bilingual classroom programs in the States for several years. We are in a position to help people here realize their dreams--well, a few of them--and I believe that their dreams should take precedence over ours. We have a much wider menu of choices than they do, after all.