Job Discussion Forums

[mat chen]

Blaiming the victim is the norm on this forum. I have seen first hand how the hands of justice work here. Holding on to passports is the norm. It is a way to make sure the prostitute doesn't run on the pimp. It is also how they get rid of people. The person thinks their passport is being processed and then they are told they have overstayed and must leave the country immediately. It has happened to me and I had to get a new passport. I did nothing other than abide by the contract. I taught all my classes and was cheated out of overtime that was supposed to be paid at the end. This was at a university with over 30,000 students. I was told by many Chinese at this school I would not be paid. I had lost all my books because I ran before the police could trap me like the others. The 200 books are probably in the school library. I went to the labour board with everything in Chinese. They just picked up their newspapers. Sorry this is a harmonious society. We are not part of it.

[xjgirl]

Nowadays I don't see how they can actually take your passport off you for any purpose anyway, why is your(your state's)passport in someone else's hand??
If you post it off to someone or hand it to someone, that's not your Embassy or the PSB, then it's your fault for whatever happens

There's no need at any stage of the visa application process that you should need to actually physically let go of your passport to someone who's not PSB

[xjgirl]

And this is what Mr Hewlett will be told in court today.

Case Dismissed.

[mat chen]

Exactly. Case dismissed. But xjgirl are you working on a Z visa now? If you are did you not relenquish your passport so as your visa could be processed? This forum has had many people talking about passports being in other peoples hands. It is the oldest trick. Keep the passport and then they can't run.
I had this delema when I first came here. I told them this at the start. I said they could have my passport but I go with it. My job was from hell after that and I had to fight for every pay check and air fair money at the end.

[7969]

[catinthehatter]

Take personal responsibility folks - it's that simple. There is no law that requires you come to China illegally on an incorrect visa - thus obtain your visa prior to arrival - as required by law. Second, there is no law that states your employer, recruiter, agent, etc. submit your passport on your behalf for credentials. You are in your right to accompany your employer to the PSB and hand over your documents yourself and keep the receipt yourself and pick up the passport when credentials completed yourself.

Where is the harm and personal responsibility of doing it yourself? The PSB or Education Department or Foreign Expert Bureau MAY tell you that your employer must do it - that is and isn't true. It is true they must provide specific documents and be present with necessary ID information, but YOU are in your right and SHOULD be in your self-responsibility plan to be there as well and be sure where your documents are at all times.

Otherwise, you get what you get - deservedly so.

So, come to China legally. Work legally. Submit and pickup your passport for required credentials yourself. Problem averted.

[hewlett77]

Well I'm in shenzhen now after a visa run to hk. But too late for me, i was one day late so got a warning not to over stay my visa again or face getting kicked out. I explained to the people at the border the suitation, but did not seem to care so much.
As for court, it did not go that far but nearly did. I spent the whole morning yesterday waiting for an english speaking cop to turn up to make the report for court. Just after he came, the agents husband comes walking in demanding i write him a note saying i will not take legal action against Chinaesl, and then he return my passport. So I thought right, just get it back and sign that paper he shoved in my face. But then he turns around and demands I hand back my copy of the contract with the agent. I thought very strange but then come think of it, that contract would be daming evidence against the agency if i took it too court. But i did the smart thing and made a copy of the contract and kept it on my laptop.
Anyhow back to Beijing with a better offer.
I'm not going to trust agents anymore, anywhere.

[Laurence]

hmm, if he was offering you money, then was it because he was likely to lose out in court?

I wonder what would have happened had you stood your ground..?


Either way, thanks, Hewlett77, for documenting your travails

: )

[sainthood]

Obviously, that 'piece of paper' you signed about not taking them to court is a complete waste of time...and paper.


FTR, folks, when I first came to China, and was in my university, I did hand over my passport.... and I got it back a few weeks later with a nice shiny RP in it. I came here legally, and if I worked here for the first few weeks, it would have been illegally (which I did, true!), and then all was legal.

As was sort of mentioned, there are a few here who have been scammed, but the majority of us haven't - let's not go terrifying all the new-comers here....but just be cautious. (and have a photocopy of your passport - which you should have anyway, because you sent them a copy of it before you got your contract!)

[mat chen]

sainhood. It is against all international laws to withhold a passport for a few weeks. Check with your embassy. Other things going on here and you know it. I too have had this happen and everything worked out. I was not comfortable with this situation. These things should be worked out in your own country not in China.

[wangdaning]

The thing I find the oddest about the PSB (or who ever puts the RPs in the passports) process is that they allow someone other than the bearer of the passport to pick it up without any release form (bearer agrees the passport my be released to x person). This in itself increases the chances of someone illegally withholding the passport, and actually implicates the PSB person who released it. The Chinese embassy is a bit smarter, you must sign and agree.

I have given my passport up for renewal at my current job more than once, letting the admin handle all the work. I have said in another thread, I trust the admin. Then again, my program isn't ran by unprofessional/sketchy people and there is true respect between co-workers regarding what they do. When the new RP is there it is picked up for me and promptly returned.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I'm not sure where this conversation is going.

Some are saying to get your work visa from home before you come; others come and get it 'processed' (which seems the norm).

So are we in agreement not to trust anyone with our passport then? Or... selective trust?

Mat Chen is correct that one of the oldest tricks in the book is for an employer to hold your passport and not process it. Then return it a day before the visa expires, making you get out of their hair.

Happened to many a friend here over the years.

Looks like Hewlett got his passport back, and the person who STOLE it and REFUSED to return it was in a panic because otherwise they wouldn't ask him to sign anything.

Personally, Hewlett did not need to sign it. Was he blackmailed? What would have happened if he refused to sign it? Hold his passport?

I'd stand in court and say "He said he would return it if I signed a release saying I won't sue them, which means to me that they are in the wrong or they wouldn't make that request.

But that's just me.

Glad all worked out in the end, either way.

Don't work until you have your passport in your hand, that's the motto I live by. But, that's just me.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[askiptochina]

[clownshow]