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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:02 am Post subject: JTs changing schools, how does it work? |
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So every year you get new teachers at your schools. I was wondering how it works. Do the principals have some choice, like sports teams trading? Like, if you take my chucklehead, I'll also give you my good guy.
My friend had a JTE who was transfered every year, and was pretty worthless. While the really good teachers seem to stay for up to 5 years at the same school. Wondering if indeed there is a reason to how they do all their transfers? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Not sure what you mean, or how you would know one JTE got transferred every year of his life.
Usually, JTEs get 3-year-contracts unless they nab a rare tenured contract right off. Have known only one to do that.
If your school is a combination JHS and HS, they may get shifted from one to the other annually. In my old school, they got shifted around within either JHS or HS most of the time. It seemed that some went from one to the other, often to the JHS as a demotion.
Since not everyone gets hired at the same time, it's typical to lose a group of teachers every year when the 3-year contract is up. Is this what you are seeing? |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Not sure what you mean, or how you would know one JTE got transferred every year of his life.
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Maybe he asked him and at that point he'd been transferred every year?
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Usually, JTEs get 3-year-contracts unless they nab a rare tenured contract right off. Have known only one to do that.
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What? I don't know if it's different in other parts of Japan, but in most of the Tohoku prefectures at SHS level you start on a 1 year contract and take exams at the end of the year for your perm license and then you're in the system for life. If you don't pass the exam they may offer you another 1 year contract, but they may not. Same system at JHS level, but you only rotate among the municipal JHS's, obviously.
In Iwate (& Aomorii & Akita & Miyagi) at least, rotations are based on subject area. Teachers & staff in the rotation scheme (ie everyone not stuck at one school because of a specialist subject not taught anywhere else) average three years in one place. They tend to follow their grade class through all three years and then move schools. It is very much horse trading and all the VP's get together once a year to swap teachers. Crap teachers get a reputation after a while and get 'stuck' at places for up to seven years. If they're *really* crap then they get shuffled off to a non-teaching location. Iwate has a history museum for that. It's career death.
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If your school is a combination JHS and HS, they may get shifted from one to the other annually. In my old school, they got shifted around within either JHS or HS most of the time. It seemed that some went from one to the other, often to the JHS as a demotion.
Since not everyone gets hired at the same time, it's typical to lose a group of teachers every year when the 3-year contract is up. Is this what you are seeing?
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Glenski, you've never worked in the public HS system have you? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| Glenski, you've never worked in the public HS system have you? |
No, I haven't. I was in a private JHS/HS for 4 years. My information is based on the J teachers I met there who had been in public school (or went there after their contract was up, and we stayed in touch). |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Not sure what you mean, or how you would know one JTE got transferred every year of his life.
Usually, JTEs get 3-year-contracts unless they nab a rare tenured contract right off. Have known only one to do that.
If your school is a combination JHS and HS, they may get shifted from one to the other annually. In my old school, they got shifted around within either JHS or HS most of the time. It seemed that some went from one to the other, often to the JHS as a demotion.
Since not everyone gets hired at the same time, it's typical to lose a group of teachers every year when the 3-year contract is up. Is this what you are seeing? |
Well most JTs get transfered every 3 or so years. It seems as though the screwups get transfered, well basically passed around every year.
I work at a JHS, and this year, 2 guys left, and he was cool. We got 2 new teachers in his place. One is Chinese, the other PT.
My Q though is how much control the principal has over the transferring. As this year all the 9th grade teachers are starting over again as 7th grade teachers. In fact everyone at my school is kinda old, some have even have been here for 7 years. Just wondering how it works is all. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
Not sure what you mean, or how you would know one JTE got transferred every year of his life.
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Maybe he asked him and at that point he'd been transferred every year?
| Quote: |
Usually, JTEs get 3-year-contracts unless they nab a rare tenured contract right off. Have known only one to do that.
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What? I don't know if it's different in other parts of Japan, but in most of the Tohoku prefectures at SHS level you start on a 1 year contract and take exams at the end of the year for your perm license and then you're in the system for life. If you don't pass the exam they may offer you another 1 year contract, but they may not. Same system at JHS level, but you only rotate among the municipal JHS's, obviously.
In Iwate (& Aomorii & Akita & Miyagi) at least, rotations are based on subject area. Teachers & staff in the rotation scheme (ie everyone not stuck at one school because of a specialist subject not taught anywhere else) average three years in one place. They tend to follow their grade class through all three years and then move schools. It is very much horse trading and all the VP's get together once a year to swap teachers. Crap teachers get a reputation after a while and get 'stuck' at places for up to seven years. If they're *really* crap then they get shuffled off to a non-teaching location. Iwate has a history museum for that. It's career death.
| Quote: |
If your school is a combination JHS and HS, they may get shifted from one to the other annually. In my old school, they got shifted around within either JHS or HS most of the time. It seemed that some went from one to the other, often to the JHS as a demotion.
Since not everyone gets hired at the same time, it's typical to lose a group of teachers every year when the 3-year contract is up. Is this what you are seeing?
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Glenski, you've never worked in the public HS system have you? |
After working at some really bad HS, I wouldn't see being sent to the hist museum as banishment.
At my JHS, most of them are starting their 4th year here, with some starting their 7th. |
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wayne432
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Well at high schools, the maximum time is generally 5 years at one school.
They can possibly request to stay longer, but it may or may not be granted.
They can also request to change schools earlier and even specify a school they would like to transfer to as well, but that also depends on luck a bit.
Teachers will often transfer around the prefecture for years, during which some of the more tenured staff will receive promotions and end up as heads of departments, vice-principals, etc.
Even then, vice-principals, etc. will also get transferred. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| wayne432 wrote: |
| Even then, vice-principals, etc. will also get transferred. |
Not just the VP. At the end of my first year our principal was transferred to another school in the city and we got a newly promoted principal.
The only reasons to really guarantee that a teacher can serve longer at one school seem to be extenuating personal health or special family circumstances. I've known quite a few teachers that have choosen to stay put and had their requests approved and most have circumstances that fall into those categories. For example, one of my JTEs was allowed to work PT for a long time at one school up in Hokkaido because her husband is severly disabled, house-bound and needing constant special care. She then came to my old school where she had been there longer than most other teachers (including the heads), because her husband was employed by a company in Tokyo - he normally works from home, but sometimes he has to visit HQ so they needed to move much closer.
And I've got a JTE at my low level HS who recently (like less than a month) came out of retirement. The guy did 9 years at a single HS in my old city and after that 11 years in my current high level HS before retiring. The reason he wasn't moved around; he has a severe case of diabetes. He requested a move across the prefecture to my current much larger city which was approved because his wife developed cancer and they have better medical facilities here. Of course his health and his wife's doesn't really allow for constant transfers. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| wayne432 wrote: |
| Even then, vice-principals, etc. will also get transferred. |
Not just the VP. At the end of my first year our principal was transferred to another school in the city and we got a newly promoted principal.
The only reasons to really guarantee that a teacher can serve longer at one school seem to be extenuating personal health or special family circumstances. I've known quite a few teachers that have choosen to stay put and had their requests approved and most have circumstances that fall into those categories. For example, one of my JTEs was allowed to work PT for a long time at one school up in Hokkaido because her husband is severly disabled, house-bound and needing constant special care. She then came to my old school where she had been there longer than most other teachers (including the heads), because her husband was employed by a company in Tokyo - he normally works from home, but sometimes he has to visit HQ so they needed to move much closer.
And I've got a JTE at my low level HS who recently (like less than a month) came out of retirement. The guy did 9 years at a single HS in my old city and after that 11 years in my current high level HS before retiring. The reason he wasn't moved around; he has a severe case of diabetes. He requested a move across the prefecture to my current much larger city which was approved because his wife developed cancer and they have better medical facilities here. Of course his health and his wife's doesn't really allow for constant transfers. |
Let me add this.
Why do they transfer them around so friggin much? Seems totally against the family like setting that they to have workplaces go for. Also it makes it hard to make real lasting working relationships. I like the idea of going toa school where my parents had the same teachers that I did. |
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wayne432
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Well, they often meet again later on and they also keep in touch after leaving a school. I know teachers at one of my schools who worked together 15 years ago and now they are together again.
I think it's pretty much done for experience. The idea being that a teacher gains experience for a few years while accumulating the knowledge of their rotating array of coworkers. Then, after their allotted period at a school is up, they move to another school, where they will share their knowledge with other teachers and gain more.
That's at least my take on it. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Wayne.
It is for the experience. And you need to remember that it's not just in the education system that this happens. Even in regular companies it happens, but those transfers can be more extreme.
One of my old uni friends had to do a "temporary" transfer. They had to move to work at a branch across the country for 2 years before having to move back again.
And in international companies some poor sods are expected to go on such a transfer abroad; not just the bachelors either. That's why you may come across more than a few 'returnee students'.
It is a system that has its merits and flaws. Just as allowing teachers to hole up in a single school for 30 or 40 years has its good points and bad points, too. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Why do they transfer them around so friggin much? Seems totally against the family like setting that they to have workplaces go for. Also it makes it hard to make real lasting working relationships. I like the idea of going toa school where my parents had the same teachers that I did. |
As others have said, rotation is common within Japanese (& Korean) companies and government organizations. When it's well done it promotes skill depth and breadth, reduces silo-ing, and fosters an organization focus. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Why do they transfer them around so friggin much? Seems totally against the family like setting that they to have workplaces go for. |
That's part of the point of it- the 'family' is the ENTIRE organization, not one school or department- they want employees loyal to the organization (and the embodiment of that organization in Japan is the head of it), not their own department.
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Also it makes it hard to make real lasting working relationships. |
And that's a big chunk of the rest of it. It's about minimizing risk to the hierarchy (or at least the head of it). If you have a bunch of people who have been there for a long time, then they are very likely not going to really listen to the head of the organization if the head hasn't been there at least as long as they have. And that is *exactly* what happens in some of the private highs [both jr and sr] when many of those teachers have been there for decades- sometimes moving up, but often their pay goes up, but the position is basically the same. When a new principal shows up they pay lip service to change, but they don't. Just like when the ministry comes down with new ideas about language teaching everyone nods and says 'nice idea' but they simply do not do anything that will change what they've been doing (or may frankly say 'uh, that won't work' [like when they said that English classes would be conducted ENTIRELY in English]).
Other than *possibly* the actual head of the board of education, the people at the board of education won't have been in their position all that many years either.
Japan is well-known for being 'group-centred' as opposed to individually-centred. But most of the people who understand that much don't go on to understand that the 'group' means the immediate circle first (like people care about their own friends more than someone they don't know, but who may be a friend of a friend that they've never even heard of), and then moves out to larger circles. If they are in a single department for a long time, then that will be their group. By moving them around, management ensures that not only are people constantly getting to know others, but that people have networks with people from other departments (except that, of course, often what happens is that former colleagues simply fall out of touch) that helps promote thinking of the company as opposed to the department as the 'group'.
It's a way for management to keep employees in check. And the threat of being transferred to a small school in the middle of nowhere, or to a non-school place where they will basically just sit there by themselves all day every day like a kid in detention, is used to ensure that everyone stays on the same page.
It sounds really bad and all, but actually it's not just Japan that does this. A lot of companies and corporations do this to people all over the world. It's just institutionalized as part of work culture in Japan (and other places that don't use a 'flattened' leadership model) . |
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