Job Discussion Forums

Happy Everyday · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 268

The best time I ever had, in regards to a normal social life, was in off campus apartments in the large international cities that are filled with schools. The norm for students and workers (Chinese and Foreign) is to live off campus. Dinner parties, playing music, going out at night and hanging out at home... is was very social. I met people from around the world. It was carefree. It was equal to anything I've experienced in any other metropolitan cities of the world. So many people, so many socializing opportunities, the arts, you name it. I once stayed in one of those off campus hotels to sleep (I'm forever single, not the kind of guy women chase) and it was a hotel popular for student sex, and let me tell you... I have never heard so much sex in my life. People moaning and screaming from every room. I could hear it from the air vents!

I've rented a really nice place in a really cool part of town. Contrast that to living in countryside. Nice experience if you like remote areas or want that experience of China. When it comes down to socializing and having a normal life, I've seen people do it on campus. They weren't party animals. People who work in business or a non teaching job also live off campus and more or less have little to no interference in their personal life. My experience with living on campus has been one of, at times, extreme enforcement of that law. I wish I had known beforehand. I've accepted on campus housing to save money or get to know an area before finding a place to rent. I've worked in places so remote that the school was the only place of any culture at all. Increasingly, those are the jobs available to FT. In those cases, on campus may be the better option. Most of the students I know who study in China? They prefer off campus housing, and they do what they want. Or, they can live on campus. The rules for campus residences apply to you too.

Ask your school. Is it true that it is a crime for unwed couples to have sex or live together on campus? Ask them yourself if you doubt me. In that other discussion on Dave's about on campus housing, other FT point out that you need to be married.

steve b · Joined: 31 May 2011 Posts: 293 Location: China

Happy, sorry to disappoint but the clause regarding friends staying overnight was neither added by me nor requested. It is simply in the Uni's conditions with a clear "yes" as the answer.

Without concrete proof then I shall remain sceptical. I have seen "the law" quoted on many occasions regarding China and on a couple of occasions have been so intrigued I have obtained clarification from SAFEA and the Govt which debunked those claiming to be in the know.

Whiner, your understanding that teachers sign in and out is incorrect, at least where I am. I am free to come and go when I please and should I arrive home once the block is locked I have my own key to gain entry. No restrictions whatever on my movements.

As for working below minimum wage, I am not and I live very comfortably on 60% of my salary, saving 40% for my holidays "back home". I am not in the middle of nowhere and it suits me to be 25 mins away from the main city whilst there are local facilities available. I do not have any paperwork bar the end of semester test results and I am not controlled. As for being the subject or rumour and gossip, of course that never happens in other countries or workplaces does it?

Happy Everyday · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 268

Happy Everyday · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 268

I'm just here to discuss. I never claim to be the end all be all authority on China, despite some of my long posts.

I've merely relayed my personal experiences. If you can contact SAFEA and get final word, then please post it here. Are you saying that a school cannot call the police if you bring in the opposite sex into your room? Not that we'd have any recourse over it. But I'd like to know. I've never seen the law. Darned if some CT, Admin, and Students didn't make it clear.

It would be great if all of China's laws were online and easily searchable.

I tried searching Dave's for the older discussion on this topic and could not find it.

steve b · Joined: 31 May 2011 Posts: 293 Location: China

Happy I have never asked anyone to provide links other than you. There is a good reason for that and a clue would be seen in my joining date for this forum. Just because you don't see anyone else disputing (actually I was questioning it and simply requesting proof that what you are saying is true) does not necessarily make something right does it?

The passport law? Fully aware of that one as I have concrete evidence from the British passport office so I do not query that one.

And no, I am not young but I am free and single. If I was I would perhaps not have chosen to teach in a small city - as it is I thoroughly enjoy where I am and what I do. One cannot make general comments regarding school regulations and conditions and assume one size fits all because it doesn't.

I completely agree that if you are young and enjoy an active "social" life then perhaps off-campus would be best, but sadly in my case there is no stream of nubile lovelies beating a path to my door - except for professional advice.

steve b · Joined: 31 May 2011 Posts: 293 Location: China

http://www.familylaw.com.cn/cohabitation/c_agreement.htm

No mention of it being illegal in this article on a Chinese law firm website. One must ask why there would be a need for an agreement where something is proscribed?

roadwalker · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 1750 Location: Ch

OP and others, as you can read on this thread, your mileage may vary. It's a good idea to inquire of current foreign teachers how restrictive the housing is/feels and what the policies are as far as arriving home after hours, having friends over and the condition of the premises, and how well and how quickly problems are resolved. In some situations, your apartment is in a fishbowl arrangement where you are the fish, and others it is like any apartment block that just happens to be adjoined to the campus. Also ask the hiring person directly what the policies are to get a feel of what you can expect.

It's a major part of your daily life, so treat it accordingly. I've lived on campus at three schools and off-campus at another, all in medium (one to four million) to small (one million people or less) cities. If there were restrictions, I never noticed. I rarely stay out late but have always been able to get through the guard station or gate with no problems. I don't have a lot of women staying over but haven't had any trouble when I do.

Some schools are ridiculously restrictive and some foreign teachers have been very creepy towards their students or in the day to day conduct of their lives. I suspect that the most restrictive schools have had creepy teachers before and are trying to protect themselves. Other schools are just ignorant and xenophobic possibly.

wangdaning · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 3154

Happy Everyday · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 268

Amazing. I tend to be trusting of people's advice. The school representatives were those who made it an issue. More than once. I need to see an official statement on it. I hope you're right, wangdaning.

roadwalker is also very knowledgeable on the topic.

I've played it straight and narrow when living on campus. When I've had a female visitor, they have all been told by school officials to stay away. Meanwhile, down the hall, people can be heard making love. I've always been invited to renew my contract. I'm very, very respectful of Chinese and Chinese culture. I keep it professional. I do prefer the life in big cities, and I constantly go out for entertainment or work at night in entertainment. I used to go out regularly with a school leader for nightlife. During the day, we would teach classes about the arts. At that school, no problem. That was in USA.

In China? School leaders said it was not ok. Always a problem with on campus. My only chance for a sex life involved an old sock. Off campus? It seemed that hooking up wasn't the issue, and sometimes socializing meant dancing til sunrise. Go home with friends at 2am? No problem. There is nothing wrong with it. Some people work as dancers, singers, and business owners. I abstain from the temptations of flesh usually, not that I'm a great catch. What I want in a relationship, who I meet, etc etc -- is nobody's business. It's like... whether or not I go to church is nobody's business. I don't advertise it on campus. You get picture. My China days seem to be behind me now that the salaries I've been offered are too low. Be that as it may be, I'd like to know the law.

If you made a stink about it, couldn't the anal people try to get you fired? I think some schools simply expect you to live in a fishbowl and be asexual.

Steve_McQueen · Joined: 04 Dec 2009 Posts: 37

Very informative thread . . . I'll be moving to a uni with on-campus housing soon.

This question is for those you who are not allowed to have over-night guests on campus. Hotels are an option as previously stated. Do you have to turn in your passport with the hotel's clerk / front desk?

chinanoodles · Joined: 13 May 2011 Posts: 74

Halapo · Joined: 05 Sep 2009 Posts: 140 Location: Jiangsu, China

With hotels, I recommend letting them see/get the passport info, and don't pay until you get it back in your hand.

In Shanghai, Beijing and the other westernized cities it not really an issue, but some places had/have fears that you will destroy the place, and then flee... or something. Or they just might want to take a chance to ransom it the next day claiming "additional" expenses.

Anyway, they might try to keep you passport till you check out. If you have paid, but protest them keeping it, they will likely try to keep any payments ( seeing as they themselves might not be 100% trustworthy ).

I had this issue while on vacation in Sanya and we ended up staying an extra day do to flight delays. It was partly our fault, we were trying to save some cash and where at a very cheap/low place.

I am sure many of you have noticed that no Chinese person pays until the goods are in their hands. There is a very simple lesson in that...

Happy Everyday · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 268

Sometimes the police enforce the law. The law allows for wed couples to sleep together in hotels OR same sex friends... There's a hotel industry of providing off campus rooms to lovers. And in tourist areas. But you never know. Every now and then, the police conduct a sweep, or a random person can call the police. In Shenzhen, they've been known to burst into rooms with news reporters. The next day, your name can be in the newspaper or broadcast on TV in addition to going to the police station.

The law is seldom enforced, but it happens. Check out the crackdown photos of KTV online. The police can't be certain as to who is or is not a prostitute in those rooms. You don't want to have to deal with it. Maybe you never will. I had one girlfriend in China. So, we would rent seperate rooms for the night and would not sleep together all night in the same room. It's not a crime to hang out together in the room for awhile. That was while travelling on holiday. The solution for a normal personal life on a day to day basis in would be to have a place of your own. My girlfriend was less than thrilled about staying in a cheap hotel (dirty) or spending a lot of money on a nice hotel when we were not on holiday. You don't have your own home but you're an adult? It was bad. These days, you should be concerned about getting bed bugs in hotels. You can control the cleanliness and hygene in your own home.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=88955

There used to be a time in China when random check points were created along with random fines. It used to be that using a video camera would get you into trouble. I haven't seen this much in recent years. Some of the off campus hotels are made for sex. You're putting yourself at legal risk. I'm surprised nobody else here mentions that.

Bringing someone home, a romantic dinner, courtship. That's what adults do. Sneaking off campus to a hotel because your keepers won't like it at your home? good luck impressing her with that. That's what *students* do if they cannot afford a place off campus. Factory workers have to live that way too if they choose on-site housing. My factory working friends opted to rent a place off-site. They lived with their lovers, had normal social lives.

roadwalker is VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE. As he pointed out, some unis have houising that is like living in an apartment complex off campus.

Happy Everyday · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 268

steve b · Joined: 31 May 2011 Posts: 293 Location: China

Happy I was addressing the subject of unmarried people cohabiting and the legality or otherwise of so doing. Whilst I realise it is not an answer to every question, at least I have provided something concrete in the discussion rather than simply bandying hearsay about, which when challenged does not elicit specific links from authoritative sites by the author.