Job Discussion Forums

[filippofuzhou]

greetings and sorry for the double topic (its twin is in the general Asia discussion)

I'm considering going to Laos this September, and I'd like to know your opinion about this country, in particular its education system and the students' attitude.

I'm Italian, 36 this September, and have been working in China for seven years. I'm currently in Fuzhou, Fujian provice, working at an ill-reputed training school. I can't say that I've been working at the best schools here in China: most of them were dodgy training schools or crappy "colleges" where the students were totally unmotivated and lazy. The fact that I am not a native English teacher and that -except for a couple of "real" colleges- I've always worked at low quality schools, prevents me from getting a better job.

However, what annoys me most is my Chinese students' total lack of enthusiasm, motivation and interest in studying English. If you don't know what they are, training schools are that sort of "private schools" (or rather "agencies") which collect those students who can't access any decent senior high schools or colleges, so you can figure out what their education is and what sort of desperados I have to deal with every day. Most of the foreign teachers are (as someone else here on the forum has defined them) "tattooed ex-taxi drivers" improvised teachers overnight. I hold a simple BA in Political Sciences, but I come from a family with a long history of teaching and journalism, and I am well-learned in history, arts, architecture, philosophy, and have written a considerable number of articles and essays on various subjects, as well as a couple of novels too, not counting my 8-year teaching experience in Asia. I attach a special importance to studying, learning and self-improving, so I can't work well if the environment, students and colleagues have no motivations.

As I said, after seven years, I am growing tired of Fuzhou and China in general. The local Fuzhounese are far from being open, almost nobody speaks English, and the rare conversations are just the same tedious Q/A "how long have you been in China?", "have you eaten?", "can you speak Chinese?" or "do you like Chinese food?". Chinese hardly come up with interesting topics and a foreign teacher in Xiamen once told me that they "have got nothing to talk about". I can speak Chinese, but our conversation is often inconsistent.

Life here in Fuzhou is dull, and I spend most of my time at home surfing the net, watching movies, or walking alone. Weekends are particularly tedious because for 48 hours I'll have nothing to do at all, or nobody to hang out with, except for some foreigners who are -more or less- in my same situation (but I suppose nobody comes to China only to befriend or hang out with foreigners). Almost all the whole generation of college students in Fuzhou seems too busy chatting on QQ, playing computer games and shopping to be intersted in developing cultural interests or a healthy, active outdoors life. After a while, one thinks that living here is just a mechanical process of breathing, eating, working and sleeping without any other purpose in life. In FZ in particular people seem to be too busy accumulating wealth or showing off their latest iPad, iPod whatever -I've never liked those electronic devilries- that they apparently have no any interest, ambition or hobby in life. Any conversation on politics, arts, history, music, society, social problems, collecting whatever you want, books, cars or movies falls short almost immediately due to their lack of clues (or interest) on such topics. In a nutshell, they aren't cool, interesting or culturally challenging at all. Fuzhou still has some vestiges of a historical past, but no one seems to give them a damn, for they only love anything that is modern, luxurious, lavish, shining and expensive. Almost all the students aged 18-22 are (both physically and mentally) much less mature than others I've seen in different parts of China or Asia, and -I repeat- their level of general knowledge is frighteningly low. In class, we only talk about the same things: your hometown, your favorite food, sport, movie, or any other neutral topic that doesn't require much critical judgment. The fact that they are naturally suspicious of foreigners, shy, indifferent, apparently "cold" and reticent about their feelings and thoughts, makes the whole matter much worse. It was Joseph Conrad in the novel Typhoon -I believe- that wrote "Chinamen have no soul". Cost of living in FZ is pretty high and proportionally indirect to the salary. Western food and bars -though I am not much of a clubber- are quite expensive, so I spend most of my time at home to save as much as possible.

The situation in the north of China is slightly different, though not much better than here. It is true that northern Chinese are more sociable, open and outgoing, and can speak English a little better than here in Fujian, but yet the general level of education and knowledge remains, widely speaking, alarmingly low. I do not wish to end up in another disorganized training school or "college", teaching English to lazy students who see education as a pure formality to pass an exam, just because of my "wrong" nationality. Furthermore, the north is much dirtier and more polluted than the south, and all the places I have seen, were pretty dull-looking (and pretty gloomy in winter. Go anywhere in Hebei and see it by yourselves). Being a dancing monkey for kindergarten children is out of discussion, even if I can easily find a job as such.

China used to be a cool country with cool people until some 5 or 6 years ago (let's say before the Olympics bubble): when I first came here I met many people who were enthusiastic about befriending foreigners and learning English, but now it seems that this enthusiasm has cooled down, and the general impression is of utter indifference or boredom. Undoubtedly people have grown wealthy, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have also grown more cultivated: on the contrary, they seem to have become more arrogant, spoiled, materialistic and shallow.

Now, my question is: is Laos better than China? How many chances does a non-native English speaker like me have to find a decent job? Are Laotian better than Chinese in terms of education and friendliness? I am not looking for small Platos or Einsteins, but only for some laid back students who are keen on learning and curious about the world in general, who can enjoy outdoors life, some little adventure, travelling, camping, and trekking. I do not like megalopolis of millions of souls, so I'd prefer to live in a quiet town or village, as long as I am surrounded by Nature.

I read that if I want to find a job in Laos I'd better go and show up myself, but frankly speaking, how many chances do I actually have to get one? Thanks for reading my post, but you know, these things have been boiling over inside myself for too long and I needed to let them out.

[roadwalker]

Sorry I don't have an opinion on Laos v China other than Laos is beautiful but far less developed than China.

OP fixed the following complaint.... And it reads nicely! I only have experience in Laos taking the typical tourist trail down the Mekong in the long boats and then through Vientiane before out to Thailand. I thought about teaching there, but on reflection, my guess is it is a good place to visit. I have no experience with the schools and the Laotians in general.

In general, I don't like teaching rich kids for many of the reasons you mention. They have their future mapped out and you are just providing a check mark on their way. Obviously there are exceptions but I don't think the Chinese education system provides any encouragement for creative thinking, imagination or for valuing different ideas. The poor kids have fewer toys and fewer exotic experiences and so are more likely to be curious about the foreigner.


My main response is that I couldn't bring myself to read your post.


It just looks like a wall of letters.


Even if you can't figure out where to end one idea and begin a new one (i.e., a space between two paragraphs), I suggest that you provide spaces at small intervals, just to make it easier to keep track of your message. Paragraphs, there not just for students. I suggest the edit button and throw some spaces between lines, or better yet, spaces between paragraphs so we can follow your ideas better.

[wangdaning]

It does make one dizzy, doesn't it? Got a few lines in and got lost.

[CJD]

well there aren't any big cities in laos, and the biggest cities (which can hardly be considered cities) are really, really touristy. there's basically the touristy areas where it's all english-speakers, and then places with pretty much no english speakers and shitty dirt roads. even the roads linking the main cities together are shitty dirt roads full of potholes in some places

and china is sort of the opposite in a lot of ways, tons of huge cities

there is a lot of beautiful nature in laos, though. northern laos has a lot of jungle and mountains, and the middle part of laos is more flat with lots of farmland. not sure about the south

something that annoyed me about laos is how people always try to rip off foreigners, they refuse to give you the same price as local people. it's like, they either rip you off or just don't sell you anything. this might be different in the extremely rural parts of laos though

[filippofuzhou]

my original message had breaks and paragraphs, but each time I tried to post it, it appeared a "session expired", "connection reset" or "javascript error" message (I am using the school's pc). After 4 times I gave up. Then I copied and pasted the whole body onto a word file (and for whatever reason the breaks and spaces between the paragraphs disappeared), and copied again the whole thing here...

[samhouston]

Also interested in Laos. That's my bail-out destination, should I need it.

[filippofuzhou]

switched to Google Chrome and now it seems my Internet is ok now.



CJD, I like shitty dirt roads, better if with potholes

Roadwalker, yeah, you're right. I've always been told, here in Fuzhou, that "the Chinese society is a practical society" so there's little room for imagination and creativity. Obviously, managing 1.4 billion people isn't an easy task, and valuing different ideas might result risky, too risky, that's why independent thinking is discouraged. And that's why I am leaving...

[RiverMystic]

[petebeatstreet]

Filippo, are you Luigi?

[filippofuzhou]

I read that novel, it's pretty creepy but reflects perfectly what the situation in China is nowadays.

Ah, I am Filippo since I was born.. I heard of that Luigi, though it's not me.

[filippofuzhou]

...and perhaps that's what China is becoming: a gigantic shopping mall...
I've already declared my personal war against modernization

That guy Yao who killed a woman and was sentenced to death is another example of the discontent, pressure and the general decline of morals and culture in China. I do not mention "spirituality" because that has already long gone.

Native speaker or not, good pay or not, I'm heading to Laos or Cambodia. I was born poor and I'll most likely die as such. It's not money what I am after: I'm just looking for students keen on learning, with true and honest native intelligence, imagination, fantasy, creativity... Do these people still exist or am I living in an out-of-date representation of Asia?

[Tainan]

I just spent some time in Laos. There are very few jobs outside Vientiane, in Vientane there is a lot of competition for jobs, and the jobs pay very, very little.

[choudoufu]

from what i hear, vientaine is also purty 'spensive.
the ngo folks have moved in and run up all
the property prices.

[wiganer]

Another non-native English teacher who thinks they are owed a living because... I don't know why? I speak Spanish but I know against a native Spanish speaker I am coming in second for any Spanish language teaching job we both go for. Why do you think it should be different for you? (I know I know, you know the grammar rules better than all of us).

You are blaming a lot of people for your lack of life satisfaction but why don't you go back to Europe, upgrade your qualifications - get a MA in TESOL or linguistics - and then you will have more choice of where you can go and who you can teach.

If there is any consolation, I get the same attitude and lack of interest from a lot of my Chinese students and I am a native speaker with related degree and masters degree. You would have thought though that after seven years in the country, you should have learned by now how this place works, not to take it so personally and not to rely on others to make you happy.

Would it be any better in Laos? I doubt it.

Go home and get some real qualifications.

[filippofuzhou]

eh going home.. If I had a home and family, I'd gladly go back. Though I am now an Italian citizen, with perfect command of the language (for my parents were of Italian origins), I do not have a home or family anymore. War, sometimes, takes away all, so, now, whether I live here in China, or in Serbia, In Laos, in the South Pole, or anywhere else in the world, it doesn't make any difference...

Some people get stuck here: they never earn enough to go anywhere else, or simply, they have nowhere to go. I worked for 7 years in China at 2000 rmb/month or less (accommodation and meals not provided, of course), now, all the money I have is just barely enough to buy a ticket to Europe, but definitely not enough to afford any TESOL or CELTA course. I do not have anyone in the world who can support me, financially, so Asia has become my home. If I had gone to South America, then SA would have become my home. Anywhere would have become my home.

I understand that most of you have high qualifications and better living conditions. I only have a BA, an online TEFL certificate gotten in China, I am not native English speaker, and haven't got enough to leave this place and upgrade my education. Yes, I admit that I rely on others to make me happy. I know that I'll never have enough money to improve my education, and now, with just few hundred dollars left, and no one in the world who can support me, I'd rather use this money for carrying on living than for upgrading my education. It's sad, but I haven't got many other alternatives, financially speaking.

Thanks for all of your suggestions, I guess I should keep on teaching my students, whether they are smart or dumb. Fuzhou isn't the best place in the world, but after 7 years in China and other 7 wandering around the world, I should just be glad that at least I've got a shelter and two meals a day. The questions where to teach, who to teach, what qualifications are needed to teach and so on, are now as distant from my life as another galaxy...

Thanks anyyway for your suggestions, good luck to everybody

F